Surveillance audits by lead auditors

Q

qualitysys

#1
Hello, we have a third party certification body that is giving us the service of the TS16949 audits, surveillance & certification audits. trying to find a cost saving ideas, it is possible to cover surveillance audits with Lead auditors from our organization and use third party certification body services just in certification or recertification audits?
thanks.
 
Elsmar Forum Sponsor
#2
Hello, we have a third party certification body that is giving us the service of the TS16949 audits, surveillance & certification audits. trying to find a cost saving ideas, it is possible to cover surveillance audits with Lead auditors from our organization and use third party certification body services just in certification or recertification audits?
thanks.
Not if you want to maintain an accredited TS certification! It wouldn't be 'independent' with your own leads, would it? The IATF/IAOB would throw a fit!

Why are you looking to reduce costs like this? Aren't you getting much value from your CB's visits? A proactive, progressive and customer focused CB looks past simple compliance and will look at your system to find cost savings worth much more than the costs of those visits!
 

Sidney Vianna

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Staff member
Admin
#4
Not if you want to maintain an accredited TS certification!
Not to mince words, but I believe the proper term is recognized. Remember, the TS certification process exists outside of the IAF accreditation process.
A proactive, progressive and customer focused CB looks past simple compliance and will look at your system to find cost savings worth much more than the costs of those visits!
Be careful. The IATF is concerned about CB auditors not crossing the consulting line. While CB auditors might be able to identify opportunities for improvement, this is being done very carefully, these days.
 
Q

qualitysys

#5
BTW - welcome to the Cove!

thanks Andy, and of course that I want to maintain our certification, and the proposal is just surveillance audits not certification/recertification audits, CB's audits are more now a requirement to receive a check for the "service".
 

Sidney Vianna

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Staff member
Admin
#6
thanks Andy, and of course that I want to maintain our certification, and the proposal is just surveillance audits not certification/recertification audits,
As Andy said, if you want to maintain your certification, it is MANDATORY that the CB auditors perform surveillance audits at intervals no longer than 12 months apart. There is no cost savings possibility there. Actually, the IATF requires that one of the auditors involved with the certification audit is involved with the surveillance audits.
 
#7
Not to mince words, but I believe the proper term is recognized. Remember, the TS certification process exists outside of the IAF accreditation process. Be careful. The IATF is concerned about CB auditors not crossing the consulting line. While CB auditors might be able to identify opportunities for improvement, this is being done very carefully, these days.
True, Sidney - the overall effect is the same, tho'

Also, yes, I read you 5 x 5 - wouldn't an OFI result in cost savings........?:notme:
 
#8
thanks Andy, and of course that I want to maintain our certification, and the proposal is just surveillance audits not certification/recertification audits, CB's audits are more now a requirement to receive a check for the "service".
I understand the concept - it just won't fly for any part of the process! It it would, somebody (creative) would have done it by now, of course.........;)
 
B

Bob the QE

#9
I used this about 12 years ago to beginning the ISO process. We used external audits from another company who were ISO trained and certified lead auditors. This was done for the final audit of our QMS prior to registration and not to maintain registration. So if you could find certified TS for TS standard or an AEA for AS that is out of work or would do it as a shared resource. They do yours you do theirs, would the fact that if they are IAQG registered in OASIS for AS (not sure what the TS equivalent to OASIS is) would that work? Just a thought, maybe we could put someone back to work.
 
#10
I used this about 12 years ago to beginning the ISO process. We used external audits from another company who were ISO trained and certified lead auditors. This was done for the final audit of our QMS prior to registration and not to maintain registration. So if you could find certified TS for TS standard or an AEA for AS that is out of work or would do it as a shared resource. They do yours you do theirs, would the fact that if they are IAQG registered in OASIS for AS (not sure what the TS equivalent to OASIS is) would that work? Just a thought, maybe we could put someone back to work.
With respect, Bob - that's not what the OP is asking - from what they've posted they are looking to reduce costs by doing the CB surveillance audits themselves! Nice idea, but improbable......I can't see a credible/accredited CB putting their name to a certificate when the audits are done by the customer who holds the certificate, can you?

And, as Sidney points out, the IATF/IAOB would have a hernia!
 
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