Survey or Statistics on the use of OHSAS 18001 Worldwide

Randy

Super Moderator
#21
I don't know...Why is the sky blue (I know the answer) BS is just dropped for ease of use, out of laziness, or some other reason....Doesn't matter and nobody cares..The same thing is commonly done with ISO 9001:2008 like saying 9K, 9001 and so forth

I like BS8800:2004 myself as you seem to do, but here's the deal...It can't be audited because it is a GUIDANCE standard and not a Specification or Requirements standard
 
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tigerfan51

#22
The survey data/spreadsheet that Sidney attached indicates that China has more than 18,000 certifications to OHSAS 18001 (or equivalent standard). This is an order of magnitude greater than the next nearest country (UK at 1086). It seems to me that the Chinese statistics must be padded/fudged - such a large number of OHS certifications goes against all the anecdotal evidence I have heard from clients that have visted China.

To me this unrealistically large number of OHS certifications also casts doubt on the quality and environmental statistics for China that are in the annual ISO survey.

Any comments ?
 

Randy

Super Moderator
#23
The survey data/spreadsheet that Sidney attached indicates that China has more than 18,000 certifications to OHSAS 18001 (or equivalent standard). This is an order of magnitude greater than the next nearest country (UK at 1086). It seems to me that the Chinese statistics must be padded/fudged - such a large number of OHS certifications goes against all the anecdotal evidence I have heard from clients that have visted China.

To me this unrealistically large number of OHS certifications also casts doubt on the quality and environmental statistics for China that are in the annual ISO survey.

Any comments ?
Oh yeah, but I'll keep 'em private:lol:
 
#24
Hi Randy !

BS OHSAS 18001 : Contrary to what you say, "BS" of this name did not dropped, but instead has been strengthened by BSI ... Do not quote precisely BS OHSAS 18001 is in my opinion a lack* of rigor or knowledge to someones, or for others it's obscuring the truth to suggest that this standard is an internationnal one (and perhaps even an ISO standard).
* Yet the world of technical or legal standards is a world of precision and accuracy.

BS 8800 : How can you say that "It can't be audited because it is a guidance standard and not a specification or requirements standard"? It's wrong ! I think it's because your vision of Management Systems standards is particularly reduced or distorted by your CB economic point of view (confusion between certification and MS). But this is not the certification that defines what is not regarding MS's standards. And everyone knows that MS's standards have no requirement for certification. (OSH) Management System Standards are primarily intended for companies (their OSH officers). Do not spill the standard values of MS.

We can not say "It can not be audited" because "it must be audited"... it's a requirement ! (See § 3.8 of BS 8800...)

Randy certainly we have different views, but it is very interesting. Bye.
 
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Sidney Vianna

Post Responsibly
Staff member
Admin
#25
or for others it's obscuring the truth to suggest that this standard is an internationnal one (and perhaps even an ISO standard).
What makes a standard an "international one"? Certainly there are many international standards that are outside the ISO realm. For example, the AS/EN/JISQ 9100 standard. Over 11,000 organizations have attained certification to that standard, all over the World. Wouldn't you consider it an international document?

OHSAS 18001 is being adopted as National Standards by some countries. For example, Singapore; their SS 506:2009, Part 1 document is an adoption of the OHSAS 18001 document. If you look at this version of the document, you will see that, in the VAST MAJORITY of cases, it is referred to as OHSAS 18001. Only on page ii, in the upper left corner, they used the letters BS. Maybe, instead of crusading against the OHSAS 18001 standard, you should focus on promoting the ILO document. I am still waiting to hear reasonable arguments against OHSAS 18001, and I am starting to suspect you might have had a strong influence on the ISO TMB decision that, TWICE, voted down a proposal for an ISO Standard on Occupational Health & Safety Management System Standard. The real loser was the ISO organization themselves, who missed the opportunity to engage in a critical subject. Certainly, ISO also missed on a big revenue generation opportunity.

The development and maintenance of the OHSAS 18001 Standard (as the AS/EN/JISQ 91X0 documents) shows that Industry will coalesce around a document that satisfies their needs, irrespective of what purists and idealists think.

Whomever was behind ISO's decision to vote down the ISO OHSMS standard cost the ISO organization, hugely, both in tangible and intangible means.
 
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#26
Good morning all folks !

What makes a standard an "international one ?" ask Sidney. It's basically the legitimate and international character of the organization that publishes (and indeed ISO is not the only one, ILO is international too). It is similar to "lower" levels (federal or national), including legal standards.

A national organization publishes national documents, e.g. : BSI published BS OHSAS 18001.
An federal organization publishes federal documents, e.g. : EU publishes REACH regulation.
An international organization publishes international documents, such as ISO 14001.

A national (or federal) may adopt a document of a organization size above which he belongs, for example France (in Europe and in the world): NF/EN/ISO 14001 (this is a French / European / International standard ). But the B(ritish) S(tandard) OHSAS 18001 is not French or American, etc. ... or international one, so the French standard NF X35-109 is not Russian or Chinese, etc ... or international standard .

An organization may adopt or build a document from another organization, examples:
- Singapore Part 1 S506 (adopting a British Standard).
- European regulation No. 761/2001 (EMAS using EN/ISO 14001).
- GOST 12.0.230-2007 in CIS countries (adopting international occupational safety and health standard ILO-OSH).
- ANSI / AIHA Z10 in the USA (based on ILO-OSH too).

Finally on this point, Sidney, I think truly extraordinary, to attempt to justify the injustifiable OHSAS 18001 name, you use a Singapore document instead of "naturally" and simply read what is written on the top of every page Original British BS OHSAS 18001 itself ... It's a joke !

Also I have already explained, as OSH manager, why I prefer ILO-OSH (self internationally, OSH very professional, very clear, and perfectly compatible with ISO 9001 and ISO 14001). I already said that ILO-OSH, ANSI / AIHA Z10 and BS 8800 are significantly better than the poor BS OHSAS 18001. I have appreciated GOST adopts ILO-OSH, as ANSI / AIHA inspired by it, as BS OHSAS 18001 refering it, or that ISO 26000 coting ISO 9000, ILO-OSH and ISO 14000 series. So I still say that ILO-OSH is the international of unavoidable OHSMS benchmark and it is an excellent choice for our companies wishing to improve their OSH performances.

I reassure you, if ISO has voted twice negatively the creation of an ISO OSHMS and has recognized the international standard ILO-OSH (like other agencies background), I have nothing done. But I'm happy, because it corresponds to my modest choice. And I hope other OSH officers will continue to be increasingly likely to recommend this option for our firms to their OSHMS (instead of believing that the British standard is the only one). By informing people properly and honestly they can choose according to their needs and their culture.

Bye.
 

Sidney Vianna

Post Responsibly
Staff member
Admin
#27
What makes a standard an "international one ?" ask Sidney.
Thank you. Since you promoted me as the answerer to this question, please pay attention.

What makes a standard international? It has much less to do with the publisher/issuer than with the adopters. If you have a standard that has been adopted by tens of thousands of user organizations, around the World, as clearly demonstrated by the spreadsheet I posted earlier on this thread, I tell you: that is TRULY an international standard.

I already challenged you to post statistics on the usage of the ILO-OHS Guidance document, internationally. I have not seen any factual numbers yet. Which leads me to believe that the deployment of that document is dismal. Or, worse, nobody tracks it. Compared to the tens of thousands of OHSAS 18001 adopters. That, in itself, should make people think.

I would hope that your next post would bring verifiable data on ILO-OSH users around the world. So we can compare market interest between the two documents. Because, as I said already, the best standard in the World that fails to gather support and users is meaningless.
 

Jim Wynne

Staff member
Admin
#28
What makes a standard an "international one ?" ask Sidney.
First, let's define what "standard" means. A standard is any set of rules or requirements agreed upon by at least two parties to govern business or interaction between them. ISO 9001 would not be a "standard" if no one were using it, regardless of what its publishers choose to call it.

Now, "international." This simply refers to anything that is of or having to do with two or more nations.

So an "international standard" is a set of requirements or rules that is agreed upon by individuals in different countries. If I and someone in Lesotho agree to use a British standard to govern our interactions, that standard is international in use. Where the standard originates or what its publishers call it is irrelevant.

Ultimately, anything used as a standard, internationally or only between me and my next-door neighbor, will stand on its own merits and depth of adoption. Attempting to give the ILO-OSH document gravity by pointing out that it's an "international standard" doesn't help in establishing its merit.
 

Randy

Super Moderator
#29
Way, Way :topic:
Hi Randy !

BS OHSAS 18001 : Contrary to what you say, "BS" of this name did not dropped, but instead has been strengthened by BSI ... Do not quote precisely BS OHSAS 18001 is in my opinion a lack* of rigor or knowledge to someones, or for others it's obscuring the truth to suggest that this standard is an internationnal one (and perhaps even an ISO standard).
[/COLOR] Bye.
Thank you for keeping me up to date with BSI, I'll make note of your insight:sarcasm:
 
S

SoromaUPC

#30
Hi everyone!

Does someone know where can I find the 2009 Survey? According to @Sidney, the results should be already available.

Thank you!
 
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