Survey - What is the demand of Pre-written/ready-to-use calibration procedures?

T

TeeTV

#1
Hi there,

I am from a consultancy company, and trying to do a survey.

What is the demand of Pre-written/ready-to-use calibration procedures, including uncertainty calculation template for that particular calibration?

If there is a demand, what area will the demand be? (e.g. Thermometer, Humidity chamber, Pressure gauge...)


Thanks for your help.

:thanx:
 
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D

D.Scott

#2
Hi TeeTV, Welcome to the Cove.

I would think with cal procedures, it is pretty much the same as with our test methods. If there were pre-written procedures that didn't have to be tweaked for our purposes and if they were inexpensive enough it might be worth looking into. The idea of calibrating a glass thermometer has me intrigued already.

Dave
 
J

Jstain1

#3
calibrating a glass thermometer

calibrating a glass thermometer
Perhaps performance verification would be more appropriate. :yes:

I suspect there would be problems dependent on whether the procedures were ISO17025 compliant or not. There's a great deal of territory in writing such a prcocedure, given all the variables that's involved.
 
T

TeeTV

#4
Thanks for reply.

Thanks D.Scott, Jstain1, for your comment. I am impressed with this site and how helpful all these professional people are. :thanx:

What price will you think is reasonable? 199? 99?

Many of my clients are looking for some books in this area, that designed for hands-on technicians, but they complaint that most of the books are rather academic. Do you know of any handbook for things like Glass thermometer measurement, or calibration?

Best regards,
Tee TV
 

Hershal

Metrologist-Auditor
Staff member
Super Moderator
#5
I hope I don't get folks too upset........

There is a handbook coming out that is appropriate for the bench tech.....ASQ is about to formally release the Metrology Handbook....they are already taking orders and may be shipping already....not sure about the shipping part though.

The COTS (Commercial Off The Shelf) pre-pakaged calibration procedures is an interesting subject for me as well, since I will likely run across them during assessments.......and so have a number of questions.......

Will the procedures be compliant with the requirements of ISO/IEC 17025, in particular, will validation information be made readily available? I can assure the developer of the procedures that the question will come up.

Also, for those labs that currently use the military procedures (USAF T.O. 33K, USN 17-20 & 17-50), which are available at no cost, what is the rationale to switch?

Just stirring the pot a bit....

Hershal
 
T

TeeTV

#6
Hershal said:
I hope I don't get folks too upset........

The COTS (Commercial Off The Shelf) pre-pakaged calibration procedures is an interesting subject for me as well, since I will likely run across them during assessments.......and so have a number of questions.......

Will the procedures be compliant with the requirements of ISO/IEC 17025, in particular, will validation information be made readily available? I can assure the developer of the procedures that the question will come up.

Hello Hershal,

thanks for your valiable input and comment.

So far, have you run into any of the pre-packaged calibration procedures yet? (I know a few companies in US do sell them at $199), just not sure if the market demand is good.

Most of the calibration methods are published in international standards, what we are thinking to do is make it into step by step procedures including equipment list and calibration record forms/excel templates. You are right, most of the people khow how to do it, but stucked with uncertainty. In order to use a pre-package uncertainty templete without user having to customise too much, then no choice but to ask users to follow exactly step by step procedures and equipments the way uncertainty is derived.

The procedures we are thinking to do are already using in some ISO/IEC 17025 accredited labs, therefore they are validated. (When we say validated, do you mean also FDA 21CFR 11 validation? in my opinion this is seperate validation process.)

What is your opinion about viability?

Appreciate your valuable comments.

TeeTV :thanx:
 
A

Atul Khandekar

#7
A sample procedure?

TeeTV,
Can you possibly post a sample, so our experts here can take a look and comment on the structure, useability, viability and other issues?
Thanks...and welcome to the Cove!
 

Hershal

Metrologist-Auditor
Staff member
Super Moderator
#8
TeeTV,

I agree the FDA process is a bit different than the validation process under ISO/IEC 17025. I was thinking more about ISO/IEC 17025 accredited labs.

I have not run across this too much - yet. Most labs I have been in use the military procedures or Fluke procedures or manufacturer's procedures.......a few write their own which then brings up validation questions.

You are correct about the uncertainty issues requiring exact compliance to the procedure. That may be a downfall to the procedure. The cal labs in the North American market have an extensive array of equipment ranging to pre-historic to the latest thing available.......each lab makes their own choices regarding equipment. That of course complcates the procedure issue because developing the uncertainty for 20 different meter calibrators may be prohibitive.

I don't intend to sound like the pessimist, just letting you know you will likely encounter that as an issue as you penetrate the market.

If you would be willing to post a generic version as Atul suggested, you may get some good comments from that as well.

Hershal
 
G

Graeme

#9
Maybe but on the other hand ...

TeeTV said:
What is the demand of Pre-written/ready-to-use calibration procedures, including uncertainty calculation template for that particular calibration?
I'm sure the initial thought of most people, especially in small calibration labs, is that it would be a good idea. (Me, too!) But I see at least one practical problem.

A calibration procedure is a process for verifying the performance of the unit under test. They can be written to be fairly generic, especially if NCSL RP-4 is followed. That is, the procedure for calibrating a specific UUT model (or a group of different models with substantially identical performance attributes) can be written in terms that identify the measurement standards only by generic nomenclature and required performance specifications.

As I understand laboratory accreditation and similar requirements, the measurement uncertainty is based on the individual laboratory performing measurements with a specific suite of standards. This means, for example, that the uncertainty in my lab is different from the uncertainty in your lab even if we are using the same calibration procedure to calibrate the same UUT model with identical measurement standards. We are in different locations with different environments and have different people, for starters.

I can see a possible market for canned calibration procedures in terms of being a defined and validated calibration method. That would be useful and may even be accepted by the AB's. The procedures could even include a range of expected uncertainties. But I don't believe those uncertainties could be used as-is by any lab for accreditation. At most, they would be a benchmark for evaluating their own uncertainty when it is determined.

(Hershal - there is an announcement about the book in the Book Reviews forum; Marc let me do that several weeks ago. And it has been shipping for a week now - my boss has his already. :D )
 

Hershal

Metrologist-Auditor
Staff member
Super Moderator
#10
Graeme,

You are exactly correct regarding the accreditation and uncertainty issues. I can't speak for colleague organizations, but with sufficient validation available to the lab then I would accept the procedures.

Still, the uncertainty issues will have to be addressed......

I also have my Handbook now.....open to a signing ceremony at NCSLI?

Hershal
 
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