SBS - The best value in QMS software

Systems Approach or Process Approach? Micro level of managing

  • Thread starter systems_thinker
  • Start date
S

systems_thinker

#31
Craig H. said:
Systems Thinker:

I have done a google search on Lean Value Stream Map and found lots of sites that want to sell me training and software, but none showing me an actual map. Maybe I'd steal it for my process?!?

Anyway, if you could provide a link or an example here, I would like to take a look.

Craig
You can try these links, Craig. The first is a paper by Jim Womack which gives a short intro to the process, with a truncated example. The second shows 2 examples, neither of which are particularly good. If these don't do the trick for you, let me know and I can try to get something to you. Cheers,

http://www.mamtc.com/docs/physicalFlow.doc
http://www.esprit100.demon.co.uk/tutorials/valstream.htm#current
 
Elsmar Forum Sponsor
G

Greg B

#32
Hi All,

This is why I joined the cove...to stimulate the thought process.
In many of these posts, people have talked about the 'customer' and I think implied that it is the 'external customer' that we must satisfy. I asked my management group, a few months ago, if our external customers said we did not require QA certification would we still have one?? The eventual answer was a resounding YES! because we use it as a Business Tool not a 'have to have' tool (although originally this is exactly why we had it). A QA system by any other name is a Business Management Tool. We set our Business KPIs and then our Process KPIs follow on from them. Our Internal customers are probably more important because if we do not satisfy them then the external customer is not going to be satisfied.
If all the Business Graduates in our company got together and put in place all of the general business practises they had learnt (JIT, Lean Management etc) what would they come up with?? A QA system??? Would business students espouse a Process or Systems appoach? What would they call it? A Business Approach?? Would it lean more to logistics and monetary gains? What would happen if we got Chemists and Engineers together...What we they develop? Would thier system be more prone to be a Checks and balances system (Go - No Go)? Just some thoughts. :lick:

Australia does not have many avenues for Quality professionals to study 'Quality' at tertiary level (there are a few Colleges and Universities but not many). Our QA people usually come from the Business fields or the military.

Systems_thinker, thanks for coming on board.

Greg B
 
R

Randy Stewart

#33
VSM Examples

System Thinker,
Here is a couple we did with Ford engineering. If you can't read them (I had to chop the size to be attached) I'll send them to you email.
Let me add this;
I don't think that VSM by itself is the way to go. When you use them in conjuction with your process maps it is a very eye opening exercise. VSM is based on timing and throughput, and unless you have a defined process map you can miss the root causes.
Once again if you can't read them just let me know.
:agree:
 

Attachments

C

Craig H.

#34
Systems Thinker:

I agree with what Greg just said. It really does not matter what we call it. Except so that we can use a name to describe a tool.

Ok, the lean process map, then. It seems to me that, at least in the case in the second link you so kindly provided, that the whole key here (and with Kaizen, too, if memory serves) is production scheduling, right? (Or not right?). This allows a reduction in WIP and finished goods inventory.

We have a situation where it seems like our production schedule is constantly changing. Being a raw materials supplier to raw materials suppliers, we feel any "whiplash effect" changes in scheduling all the way to the consumer, which can be several steps. Further, we have some customers who call and try to move shipments from next week to this Wednesday (this is Tuesday morning). I have actually had a customer tell me that if we instituted Just In Time, we could handle changes like this. I wanted to reply with something about Just Poor Planning, but I digress.

My questions are these: With a somewhat fluid scheduling stuation, how can we eliminate inventory and maintain current servicing levels? Is there any way to do this? How should I approach it?

Thanks for the input!!!

Craig
 
R

Randy Stewart

#35
It really does not matter what we call it. Except so that we can use a name to describe a tool.
VSM and process maps are 2 different and separate entities that function with different targets.

I don't know if you've seen this before the second attachmentt is actually model after what Toyota does for their stamping dies. But it was mainly for getting a design from clay freeze to release. Something they accpmplish in about half the time that NA companies do.

I have actually had a customer tell me that if we instituted Just In Time, we could handle changes like this. I wanted to reply with something about Just Poor Planning,
Oh yes, the old indecision is the key to flexibility theory.
The VSM would help when looking at timing (we were attacking the design feeze problem) and the Process Map will define the required inputs and outputs necessary to perform the function.

Gotta run right now but I'll get back to you.
 
S

systems_thinker

#36
Randy Stewart said:
System Thinker,
Here is a couple we did with Ford engineering. If you can't read them (I had to chop the size to be attached) I'll send them to you email.
Let me add this;
I don't think that VSM by itself is the way to go. When you use them in conjuction with your process maps it is a very eye opening exercise. VSM is based on timing and throughput, and unless you have a defined process map you can miss the root causes.
Once again if you can't read them just let me know.
:agree:
Your right, Randy, VSM is not the way to go in and of itself because its just a tool. Its value lies in its ability to allow you to visualize the overall system, the process parameters, sequences and interactions, and the material and information flows. Once that is done, you have a basis for identifying the waste, its sources and the set about eliminating them. The real power in the tool comes at the process parameter level, where by comparing process performance to takt time (the heartbeat of the factory), we can see the non-value adding steps.

To give an example: a company I am working with right now quotes a lead time of 25 days (typically they exceed this); VSM current state mapping shows that the actual production lead time is 25 days with the product only spending a total of 212 seconds (3+ minutes) in processing time (value-added time) moving through the plant. In other words, it takes a customer order 25 days to move through the production system while the total processing time required to make the product is 212 seconds.

Why the discrepancy? The answer is simple: the presence of non-value adding wastes in the system. Some of this waste is the waste of poor quality (the waste of defects), but there are also other wastes present. With VSM, we can identify the sources of the waste and then set about visualizing and designing a future state system where the wastes have been eliminated. How do we do that? Again by creating a VSM future state map showing an optimized system and then applying the appropriate improvement tools to move towards that state. In the case of this company, with the future state system we have mapped we will be building to takt and have a production lead time of 4.5 days with total inventory turns up from 12 to 55. Flow and pull production will be enabled mainly because we will have adressed the causes of poor quality within the system and eliminated them along with the causes of other wastes such as high queue, wait and setup times. While this is a big improvement, there will still be room for further optimization, achieved through subsequent iterations of the improvement process described above.

My point is that a "quality alone" approach could never achieve this. I don't say this to denigrate quality improvement - its a vital part of the overall war on waste. Yes, in the case above, with a quality improvement approach alone we could perhaps eliminate the defects, but we would still have the same batch-and-push production system which is incapable of delivering value because the other system wastes have not been addressed. We need to see poor quality as a systemic (as opposed to a process) waste, and not as something in isolation by itself. If we can tie quality improvement in to the objective of adding value by improving the total system, then we will have achieved something.

Cheers

systems-thinker
 
Last edited by a moderator:
S

Sean Kelley

#37
Both. Tango with them as they both work together and you can't have one without the other.
 
S

systems_thinker

#38
Craig H. said:
Systems Thinker:

I agree with what Greg just said. It really does not matter what we call it. Except so that we can use a name to describe a tool.

Ok, the lean process map, then. It seems to me that, at least in the case in the second link you so kindly provided, that the whole key here (and with Kaizen, too, if memory serves) is production scheduling, right? (Or not right?). This allows a reduction in WIP and finished goods inventory.

We have a situation where it seems like our production schedule is constantly changing. Being a raw materials supplier to raw materials suppliers, we feel any "whiplash effect" changes in scheduling all the way to the consumer, which can be several steps. Further, we have some customers who call and try to move shipments from next week to this Wednesday (this is Tuesday morning). I have actually had a customer tell me that if we instituted Just In Time, we could handle changes like this. I wanted to reply with something about Just Poor Planning, but I digress.

My questions are these: With a somewhat fluid scheduling stuation, how can we eliminate inventory and maintain current servicing levels? Is there any way to do this? How should I approach it?

Thanks for the input!!!

Craig
Interesting question! One of the Lean guidelines is to schedule only one point in the value stream. This is contrary to orthodox push production scheduling which attempts to schedule and control all the points in the production system with powerful computers and software. In a Lean value stream, the point at which we schedule is called the pacemaker. The pacemaker process determines the speed at which the value stream will operate and regulates production through the value stream - increase its speed, you produce more product, slow it down and you produce less. (incidentally, the concept of pacemaker finds its equivalent in the "drum" of TOC's drum-buffer-rope production scheduling and control methodology, another reason why Lean and TOC are closely aligned).

How do you create a pacemaker process? By dedicating equipment into a cell or line to run a specific product or product family in continuous flow one piece at a time. In companies which produce only one product, that's relatively easy to do; in companies which produce multiple products (mixed model environments), its more complex.

The rule is that you must pull materials from upstream shared resources into the pacemaker, but out of the pacemaker you must flow downstream to the customer.

We will schedule the pacemaker by levelling the volume and mix of products that flow through it and then flow the output into a finished goods supermarket where it is held for customers.

There are several ways you can deal with changes in customer demand. One is to buffer your finished goods supermarket to handle the variability in demand. The supermarket contains an inventory buffer which you can calculate empirically by analyzing your demand variability. You can also vary the output of the pacemaker cell by varying the number of operators in it. For example, if demand for a day is down, we let the pacemaker run slower. If demand begins to exceed what we can produce, even with the help of the buffered supermarket, we may have to add equipment, operators or even another shift.

In short, the question has no simple answer because to implement the approach above you will have to change your system of production from push to pull with JIT flow. As part of that conversion, you will create a pacemaker process which you will then schedule to regulate the value stream. It will mean suspending the common notion of using more powerful computers and software to address scheduling issues in a push environment.

A good rule to follow is that the smaller we can make lead time, the less chaos in the system. Remember, as variation approaches 0, batch size can equal 1.

Hope this helps,

systems_thinker
 
Last edited by a moderator:
N

NYHawkeye - 2005

#39
systems_thinker said:
My point is that a "quality alone" approach could never achieve this....Yes, in the case above, with a quality improvement approach alone we could perhaps eliminate the defects, but we would still have the same batch-and-push production system which is incapable of delivering value because the other system wastes have not been addressed. We need to see poor quality as a systemic (as opposed to a process) waste, and not as something in isolation by itself.
systems_thinker -

It seems as though you have a fairly narrow view of "quality". Why couldn't the quality process and the resulting QMS be established to cover the full breadth of issues you have raised in this example?

On the one hand you are providing a good description of systems thinking and providing some nice examples...then you seem to fall into the trap of putting "quality" in its own little box.

My guess is that this is based on your observations of how things are being done in most organizations but maybe it is more useful to define the role the QMS should/could play in supporting a fully integrated system rather than identifying the things wrong today?

Regards
 
R

Randy Stewart

#40
Good question and good response.
The only thing I can add is that you may want look at the slowest point in your stream. It will be that operation that dictates the "drum beat" or sets the timing of the overall process. By increasing the throughput in the chosen operation you should increase overall throughput. But once again remember:
If you standardize a sub-par process - we all make junk the same way.
If you increase throughput in a sub-par process - we all make junk quicker!
 
Thread starter Similar threads Forum Replies Date
Marc Flow charts - Show Me Yours! Systems Approach - Process Mapping Process Maps, Process Mapping and Turtle Diagrams 28
H From Quality to Business Excellence: A Systems Approach to Management The Reading Room 3
Le Chiffre Online training available for ISO/IEC 17021-1: Requirements for bodies providing audit and certification of management systems Training - Internal, External, Online and Distance Learning 3
Sidney Vianna Release of ISO 10013:2021, Quality management systems – Guidance for documented information Other ISO and International Standards and European Regulations 0
optomist1 How Secure Are Our Software Systems Software Quality Assurance 7
C Barcode Labelling - Mistake Proofing Ideas & Systems Manufacturing and Related Processes 2
P IQ, OQ, PQ protocol, and report templates for Distributed Control Systems in Pharmaceutical Manufacturing Systems. Qualification and Validation (including 21 CFR Part 11) 0
S User evaluation for self monitoring blood glucose test systems US Food and Drug Administration (FDA) 4
S Manufacturing Execution Systems Software Costs Manufacturing and Related Processes 0
Ajit Basrur FDA News Harmonizing and Modernizing Regulation of Medical Device Quality Systems (7-2020) US Food and Drug Administration (FDA) 6
R Requirements for MDR Article 22 Systems EU Medical Device Regulations 1
N EU MDR - Applicability Article 22 Systems and Procedure Packs CE Marking (Conformité Européene) / CB Scheme 4
K Best Measurement Systems Demos in California? General Measurement Device and Calibration Topics 1
Bev D Verification and Validation of Measurement Systems Misc. Quality Assurance and Business Systems Related Topics 0
M Risk and Corrective actions - Currently no FMEA's - Car systems Risk Management Principles and Generic Guidelines 8
R MDR Article 22: Systems and procedure packs Other Medical Device Regulations World-Wide 12
M Informational US FDA Final Guidance – Intravascular Catheters, Wires, and Delivery Systems with Lubricious Coatings – Labeling Considerations Medical Device and FDA Regulations and Standards News 0
D Why are pharma companies automating QMS systems? Quality Management System (QMS) Manuals 2
Ajit Basrur FDA News Harmonizing and Modernizing Regulation of Medical Device Quality Systems US Food and Drug Administration (FDA) 18
M Informational TGA Consultation: Proposed clarification of the regulatory requirements for medical device systems and procedure packs Medical Device and FDA Regulations and Standards News 2
M Different procedure templates for different standards - We have two different management systems ISO 9000, ISO 9001, and ISO 9004 Quality Management Systems Standards 3
H Question about implications of performing Firmware upgrade via MDDS - Medical Device Data Systems 21 CFR Part 820 - US FDA Quality System Regulations (QSR) 2
M Routine testing of medical electrical systems - What specific electrical safety tests should be performed? IEC 60601 - Medical Electrical Equipment Safety Standards Series 5
M Informational US FDA final guidance – Marketing Clearance of Diagnostic Ultrasound Systems and Transducers Medical Device and FDA Regulations and Standards News 0
M Informational TGA – Guidance on Therapeutic Goods (Conformity Assessment Standard for Quality Management Systems) Order 2019 Medical Device and FDA Regulations and Standards News 0
J Is Design Validation required for fixtures or test systems used to manufacture a product? AS9100, IAQG, NADCAP and Aerospace related Standards and Requirements 4
R Timeframe for IATF 16949 certification to accumulate evidence of conformance of systems? IATF 16949 - Automotive Quality Systems Standard 2
M How to calculate benefits? Moving some developed non controlled software/automation systems Service Industry Specific Topics 2
Z Security for Approvals - Cloud based Complaint, NC, and CAPA systems Qualification and Validation (including 21 CFR Part 11) 8
N EU MDR Basic UDI-DI and Technical Documentation for Systems EU Medical Device Regulations 22
pbojsen Computerized Learning Management Systems (Training systems) recommendations? ISO 13485:2016 - Medical Device Quality Management Systems 3
Sidney Vianna Safety Management Systems - SM-0001 Standard for Aviation Organizations AS9100, IAQG, NADCAP and Aerospace related Standards and Requirements 0
M Interview question - IMS (Integrated Management Systems) a necessity or an ISO mistake? ISO 14001:2015 Specific Discussions 10
AnaMariaVR2 Pharmaceuticals News Transdermal and Topical Delivery Systems: FDA & EMA Guidance US Food and Drug Administration (FDA) 0
M Training to help Familiarize myself to the Standards and the way these systems work AS9100, IAQG, NADCAP and Aerospace related Standards and Requirements 8
pbojsen Intuitive Quality Design and Documentation Systems ISO 13485:2016 - Medical Device Quality Management Systems 12
D Use of password managers on validated computer systems (21 CFR Part 11) Medical Information Technology, Medical Software and Health Informatics 2
ScottK What Became of Alamo Consulting or Alamo Learning Systems Consultants and Consulting 5
R Custom Records and Quality Systems - Products that change frequently Other US Medical Device Regulations 3
W ISO 14155 - Electronic clinical data systems - Definition Other Medical Device Related Standards 0
B NEED HSE-MS Gap Analysis between 2 existing Management Systems Occupational Health & Safety Management Standards 0
Q Practical guide to scan for Risks in all QMS systems without missing any ISO 9000, ISO 9001, and ISO 9004 Quality Management Systems Standards 16
B Records Destroyed - Hurricane Harvey has likely destroyed our Quality Systems Records Records and Data - Quality, Legal and Other Evidence 10
U CE Marking of Customized Ruggedised Computer Systems Solutions CE Marking (Conformité Européene) / CB Scheme 5
E Rich O2 Environment Testing Laboratories (Clause 11.2.2 ME EQUIPMENT and ME SYSTEMS) IEC 60601 - Medical Electrical Equipment Safety Standards Series 0
V Systems to Handle Development and Batch Analysis in same Laboratory Qualification and Validation (including 21 CFR Part 11) 3
E ME (Medical Equipment) Systems - IEC 60601-1 Clause 16.1 Interpretation IEC 60601 - Medical Electrical Equipment Safety Standards Series 6
M IATF 16949 Clause 7.1.5.1.1 - What are "inspection equipment systems"? IATF 16949 - Automotive Quality Systems Standard 4
A Integrated Management Systems - ISO 50001 and ISO 9001 possible? ISO 9000, ISO 9001, and ISO 9004 Quality Management Systems Standards 4
V Upgrading Systems from CFR 211 to CFR 820 (drug+device combination) 21 CFR Part 820 - US FDA Quality System Regulations (QSR) 7

Similar threads

Top Bottom