Tape Measure Verification - Starrett 72" certified steel rule

J

Jessic2952

#1
I would like some advice from someone (anyone) who can let me know if my current practices for tape measure verification is sufficient for the TS 16949 standard....

Background info:
Tape measures are used to measure the widths of steel coils. This measurement goes on the customer's paperwork. Steel coils range in widths from 35" to 65". Tightest width tolerance (per ASTM requirements) is 3/16".


Current practice:
1. When new tapes arrive at our facility (Komelon brand), they are pulled out against a Starrett 72" certified steel rule. Each inch increment is verified for accuracy, then issued to operators on the shop floor.

2. The operators inspect the tapes at the beginning of each 12-hour shift for any damage such as kinks, wear and tear, etc, that would invalidate measurement results. During this inspection, they also test the accuracy of the tape's end piece with a certified Mitutoyo 1" gage block. If there is any kind of damage along the operating range of the tape or the end piece, they are instructed to discard the tapes and get a new one.

3. If the tapes last that long (mill environments can be rough!), then the tapes are brought back to the lab and pulled out against the 72" certified rule again after 2 years. If they pass, they are reissued; if not, they are disposed of and corrective action is taken place if it is suspected that material has been measured incorrectly.


Suggested practice by QMS dept:
The 1" block is not enough. Instead, operators should be using certified 72" steel rules at each shift (instead of the 2-year interval currently in place).


Arguments against suggested practice by QMS:
1. The certified steel rules are relatively expensive ($600-700 each), compared to the 1" blocks (about $15 each).
2. MSA studies (specifically stability) has indicated that the current process is stable enough to not require modification to the 2-year verification interval on the 72" rule.
3. Claims/complaint/internal hold data does not suggest any width issues arising from out-of-spec tape measures.
4. It's a tape measure, for goodness sakes. If it's good when you bought it and doesn't become damaged, then it remains good.


If anyone can point me to a clause in any standard or ISO guidance material where our current practices are noncompliant, then please do so. I am also a TS 16949:2002 certified lead auditor; I'm not sure why QMS department is unsatisfied with our verification process for tapes. I have also searched ISO 10012:2003 and have found nothing in there that suggests we are noncompliant. Am I overlooking something somewhere?
HELP!!
 
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#2
Re: Tape Measure Verification

Jessic,

I agree with your understanding and If you go back to Dr. Kenndy, and his principles of controling measurement of Tapes and rulers.

Remember the discrimination point on the tpe or ruler is only acurate to 1/64 of a inch (0.015) and that you always measure from the 1"inch point and not the bail or latch end. This is always off more or less and the acturate way is start from the inch mark.
 

Jim Wynne

Staff member
Admin
#3
Re: Tape Measure Verification

If anyone can point me to a clause in any standard or ISO guidance material where our current practices are noncompliant, then please do so. I am also a TS 16949:2002 certified lead auditor; I'm not sure why QMS department is unsatisfied with our verification process for tapes. I have also searched ISO 10012:2003 and have found nothing in there that suggests we are noncompliant. Am I overlooking something somewhere?
HELP!!
Welcome to the Cove. :bigwave:

You seem to have your ducks in a row, assuming everything is properly documented. I do have one question though--what do you mean by "certified" with regard to the Starrett scale?
 

Caster

An Early Cover
Trusted Information Resource
#7
4. It's a tape measure, for goodness sakes. If it's good when you bought it and doesn't become damaged, then it remains good. I'm not sure why QMS department is unsatisfied with our verification process for tapes.
Who is this QMS department?

If you can't beat them, maybe you can mollify them. Why not mill two notches in a column near where the tapes are used , one at 35" and one at 65". Then your people can do a quick check of their tape in the range of interest. This may actually be useful.

And then just for fun, ask the QMS department to certify these notches.

Then demand uncertainty budgets, GR&R, training records for their cal teck, increased cal frequency, traceability to a national standard, and so on. Maybe they will lay off a bit next time.

Like you say, "It's a tape measure, for goodness sakes".

Good luck
 
Last edited by a moderator:

Helmut Jilling

Auditor / Consultant
#8
I would like some advice from someone (anyone) who can let me know if my current practices for tape measure verification is sufficient for the TS 16949 standard....

Background info:
Tape measures are used to measure the widths of steel coils. This measurement goes on the customer's paperwork. Steel coils range in widths from 35" to 65". Tightest width tolerance (per ASTM requirements) is 3/16".


Current practice:
1. When new tapes arrive at our facility (Komelon brand), they are pulled out against a Starrett 72" certified steel rule. Each inch increment is verified for accuracy, then issued to operators on the shop floor.

2. The operators inspect the tapes at the beginning of each 12-hour shift for any damage such as kinks, wear and tear, etc, that would invalidate measurement results. During this inspection, they also test the accuracy of the tape's end piece with a certified Mitutoyo 1" gage block. If there is any kind of damage along the operating range of the tape or the end piece, they are instructed to discard the tapes and get a new one.

3. If the tapes last that long (mill environments can be rough!), then the tapes are brought back to the lab and pulled out against the 72" certified rule again after 2 years. If they pass, they are reissued; if not, they are disposed of and corrective action is taken place if it is suspected that material has been measured incorrectly.


Suggested practice by QMS dept:
The 1" block is not enough. Instead, operators should be using certified 72" steel rules at each shift (instead of the 2-year interval currently in place).


Arguments against suggested practice by QMS:
1. The certified steel rules are relatively expensive ($600-700 each), compared to the 1" blocks (about $15 each).
2. MSA studies (specifically stability) has indicated that the current process is stable enough to not require modification to the 2-year verification interval on the 72" rule.
3. Claims/complaint/internal hold data does not suggest any width issues arising from out-of-spec tape measures.
4. It's a tape measure, for goodness sakes. If it's good when you bought it and doesn't become damaged, then it remains good.


If anyone can point me to a clause in any standard or ISO guidance material where our current practices are noncompliant, then please do so. I am also a TS 16949:2002 certified lead auditor; I'm not sure why QMS department is unsatisfied with our verification process for tapes. I have also searched ISO 10012:2003 and have found nothing in there that suggests we are noncompliant. Am I overlooking something somewhere?
HELP!!
I think your approach is completely compliant, perhaps even a bit much.

Many of my clients verify it once, before release against a certified rule or tape. After that, a frequent check of condition, and occasional reverification against your rule should suffice. I don't think I would require the daily gage block. Maybe do a once per month against your 72" rule. Even a 36" rule might suffice. After all, the numbers on the tape don't move, though it could stretch. Otherwise, the main thing is condition.
 

SteelMaiden

Super Moderator
Super Moderator
#9
I've kind of laid back trying to think how I'd word a response to this. My first response to your "QMS Dept" (who/where are you in the greater picture?) was not necessarily a pleasant one.:lmao:

You don't have to have a "standard" that is the same length as your tape measure....lol, we would have to buy 100' standards! You can take a 1", a 1' or any other length standard and verifiy lengths throughout the length of the tape. Or, as Caster suggested, mill a notch! As you said, the tolerances you are working to are not all that tight. FYI, we bought 1'-0 and 3'0 steel rules with calibration, for our tapes. We check the steel rules with another that we keep in the lab to be used only to check the others. We send that one out every 2 years to make sure it is correct.

Make the system work for you, not the other way around. Good for you for questioning this, more people need to use common sense when implementing programs.
 

Helmut Jilling

Auditor / Consultant
#10
I've kind of laid back trying to think how I'd word a response to this. My first response to your "QMS Dept" (who/where are you in the greater picture?) was not necessarily a pleasant one.:lmao:

You don't have to have a "standard" that is the same length as your tape measure....lol, we would have to buy 100' standards! You can take a 1", a 1' or any other length standard and verifiy lengths throughout the length of the tape. Or, as Caster suggested, mill a notch! As you said, the tolerances you are working to are not all that tight. FYI, we bought 1'-0 and 3'0 steel rules with calibration, for our tapes. We check the steel rules with another that we keep in the lab to be used only to check the others. We send that one out every 2 years to make sure it is correct.

Make the system work for you, not the other way around. Good for you for questioning this, more people need to use common sense when implementing programs.

...more people need to use common sense when implementing programs.

:applause: absolutely!


By the way, do you really have to calibrate your standard every two years, or would it suffice to simply verify the condition is still pristine?
 
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