Definition Tempering - Definition of "Tempering" of Metal

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silentrunning

#11
Re: What is your definition of "tempering"? Stainless Steel T301

Your salesman is right. 300 series stainless is typically rolled from annealed to 1/4, 1/2 and full hard "tempers." Whether that meets the technical definition of "tempering" is irrelevant. That is how they do it. Good luck.
I agree that the method described is correct for increasing the tensile strength of 300 series stainless material. I totally disagree with the statement -"whether that meets the technical definition of tempering is irrelevant". Nomenclature is vital in manufacturing to prevent misunderstandings and possible part failure.
 
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jasonb067

#12
Re: What is your definition of "tempering"? Stainless Steel T301

According to Machinery's Handbook 25, (which is the version I have)

Tempering, "Heating a quench hardended or normalized ferrous alloy to a temperature below the transformation range to produced desired changes in properties".

Then the book goes on to further and specifically define specific types of tempering.
 

Golfman25

Trusted Information Resource
#13
Re: What is your definition of "tempering"? Stainless Steel T301

I agree that the method described is correct for increasing the tensile strength of 300 series stainless material. I totally disagree with the statement -"whether that meets the technical definition of tempering is irrelevant". Nomenclature is vital in manufacturing to prevent misunderstandings and possible part failure.
You can disagree all you want, but the context is important. When people talk about the temper of stainless steel, they are talking about 1/4 hard, 1/2 hard, etc. When you order stainless, you order something like 301, 1/2 hard "temper." Unless your specificatoin says something else, that's what you'll get. It is kind of like apples and oranges. Good luck.
 
S

silentrunning

#14
Re: What is your definition of "tempering"? Stainless Steel T301

I am fully aware of the different tensile strengths of stainless steels and how they classify them. I am refering to the verb "tempering" in the OP and for that I will take the Machinery's Handbook definition. But thanks for your input.
 

Jim Wynne

Staff member
Admin
#15
Re: What is your definition of "tempering"? Stainless Steel T301

You can disagree all you want, but the context is important. When people talk about the temper of stainless steel, they are talking about 1/4 hard, 1/2 hard, etc. When you order stainless, you order something like 301, 1/2 hard "temper." Unless your specificatoin says something else, that's what you'll get. It is kind of like apples and oranges. Good luck.
You're confusing the noun form of "temper" with the verb form.
 

Golfman25

Trusted Information Resource
#16
Re: What is your definition of "tempering"? Stainless Steel T301

You guys are focusing on semantics which in this case serves no useful purpose. That is why the context is important. Here is the problem:

You cannot harden 300 series stainless steel via heat treatment. Thus, the machinist handbook "definition" of "tempering" in the context of heat treatment is not applicable. You harden 300 series stainless steel by cold working it. They call it "rolling to temper."

It seems a perfectly legitimate proposal was rejected due to this misunderstanding. Good luck.
 

Big Jim

Super Moderator
#17
Re: What is your definition of "tempering"? Stainless Steel T301

Please, can you see the attachment in THIS thread .....
I already left thanks with the post, but I wanted to go further and say that I really enjoyed the article. This kind of sharing is one of the main reasons I'm here.

As to if it sheds any light on the topic at hand, the tempering of stainless steel, I would suggest talking to a metallurgist. Earlier I suggested a heat treat shop, and you would probably find a good metallurgist there, but someone knowledgeable about if stainless can be heat treated or not.
 
S

silentrunning

#18
Re: What is your definition of "tempering"? Stainless Steel T301

You guys are focusing on semantics which in this case serves no useful purpose. That is why the context is important. Here is the problem:

You cannot harden 300 series stainless steel via heat treatment. Thus, the machinist handbook "definition" of "tempering" in the context of heat treatment is not applicable. You harden 300 series stainless steel by cold working it. They call it "rolling to temper."

It seems a perfectly legitimate proposal was rejected due to this misunderstanding. Good luck.
I now see where you are coming from. Someone changed the thread title by adding the T-301 Stainless. I had just asked for the meaning of tempering. The change gives it a whole different meaning.

As to the semantic thing - Quality Assurance is about being exact! There is no context variation. Save that type of thinking for political debates. When peoples' lives depend on you being right, you don't assume or blurr meanings of words.
 

Ninja

Looking for Reality
Staff member
Super Moderator
#19
Re: What is your definition of "tempering"? Stainless Steel T301

Today I had a material salesman tell our purchasing personnel that he had some Stainless Steel T301 that was annealed and then ?tempered? to Full Hard. When the proposal was given to me for review, I rejected it because you can?t ?temper? T-301 to Full Hard. The salesman corrected me and said they tempered it by roll hardening the material. I realize that you can increase the hardness and tensile strength of 300 series Stainless, but this is not ?tempering?. I was always taught that tempering is a method of using heating and cooling practices to anneal a hardened material down to a desired hardness. You heat treat a piece of 1095 annealed spring steel and then temper it by drawing it at an elevated temperature. The salesman disagreed. His idea is that tempering is any process that changes the strength of the material. Thoughts please?
I'll agree that this is semantics.

I now see where you are coming from. Someone changed the thread title by adding the T-301 Stainless. I had just asked for the meaning of tempering. The change gives it a whole different meaning.

As to the semantic thing - Quality Assurance is about being exact! There is no context variation. Save that type of thinking for political debates. When peoples' lives depend on you being right, you don't assume or blurr meanings of words.
I'll also agree that quality Assurance is about being exact to the degree required.
But all the same, people's lives shouldn't ever be dependant on the word used by a salesman.
Is the thing you are trying to Assure that the Stainless is "Full Hard"? Did you pass GRR on that?
You have specs for the material, and validation on the process used to make that product. Who cares if a salesman calls it "tempering", "roll hardening" or "making it with pixie dust" ?
I shudder to think of a quality system being based on using correct American words (that sometimes aren't even English).

Spec the part number.
Measure and track the properties.
Validate and control the process.
Let the salesman call it whatever he wants...I prefer 'shiny thing' myself.

FWIW- the general definition of tempering in every place I looked specifically relates it to a heat treating process (glass, metal, plastic).
I applaud your curiosity and wanting to be precise.
Arguing with a salesman over wording seems like a waste of your talent. Spend it things that are measureable instead.
:2cents:
 
S

silentrunning

#20
Re: What is your definition of "tempering"? Stainless Steel T301

Thanks Ninja. We did buy the material because they sent me the data sheets and process sheets. Everything was in order and the ASTM specs were met. I wasn't trying to be a pain, but it is a new supplier and when he said they got the material in the annealed state and tempered it, a red flag went up. Once I got to talk to one of their technicians everything was fine. The tech sent the paperwork from the melt source thru the rolling source. Everything was in order. I just wanted to make sure that I knew what the good minds here at the Cove considered "tempering".
 
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