Terminated - Job Seeking Advice and Discussion - Over 200 Posts with Advice

[energy]

No. maybe it was my interpretation

I was led to believe that the interview with the HR person was 1 on 1 and the QA Manager was not present when the HR "lady" called Isoguy a liar. Maybe I was wrong.

I would have thought that the QA Manager wouldn't have left the applicant alone with this creature for a Private Interview. Would you? I mean, don't you want to see the whole enchalada? You may be on to something that I missed. But, it wouldn't be the first time, Sherlock!

 

[Aaron Lupo]

I was led to believe that the interview with the HR person was 1 on 1 and the QA Manager was not present when the HR "lady" called Isoguy a liar. Maybe I was wrong.

That would be correct, the portion of the interview with the HR person was 1 on 1.

 

[Aaron Lupo]

Mike, I just had to do it.

Interviewer: Oh c’mon now. How old are you?
Interviewee: Hey, you can’t ask me that!
Interviewer: You don’t look old enough to have held all those positions.
Interviewee: So, are you calling me a liar?
Interviewer: Kind of.
/

Not exactly, Sheriff.

Isoguy's original post was "I was 6 hours into the second interview with this company and had talked with everyone I would be working with, then comes the HR Manager, what a pleasent "lady" she was. I had interviewed great with everyone else than it happens. I was accused of lying on my resume "There is no way someone your age could have done everything you have listed", (that really mad me ), but I camly asked what in particular she was questioning and again "there is no way you have done all the things you have listed" I again asked what she was questioning, "the experience you have listed is a lie",

2nd interview. 6th hour. Interviewed great with everyone else. Then this happens. She calls me a liar 3 times. She is 100% wrong.

Again, to each his/her own, if you wanna waltz out and just forget it, that's fine and your business, it just isn't what I would do. And I woulda bet that you wouldn't have, either. Guess I woulda bet wrong.

I am not the first nor will I be the last person to be accused of lying or misrepresenting myself on my resume. It is a fact of life "you are too young to have done that" maybe my response should have been "yes I am very motivated, I feel that one can never learn enough. I apologize if my accomplishments make you feel threatened." and then finish the interview and wait to see if they offer me the job then reject it and then tell them why. I guess that would have been a good solution, but hey you live and you learn right?

 

[Wes Bucey]

Experience is a good teacher, but VERY harsh!

I am not the first nor will I be the last person to be accused of lying or misrepresenting myself on my resume. It is a fact of life "you are too young to have done that" maybe my response should have been "yes I am very motivated, I feel that one can never learn enough. I apologize if my accomplishments make you feel threatened." and then finish the interview and wait to see if they offer me the job then reject it and then tell them why. I guess that would have been a good solution, but hey you live and you learn right?

You are not being criticized by any of us here, IMO, as I reread all the posts.
The value of a Forum like The Cove is that we can aggregate the experience of many and learn to choose a path that fits when we come across a similar situation. Your candor in retelling the tale helps us all get a better sense of where WE fit in the universe.

Obviously, from the comments, some of us have been on the dirty end of the stick in similar circumstances and paid a bitter price. (I've been witness in my time to vindictive "blacklisting" of people who spoke out, trying to do the right thing. That doesn't make it a rule of thumb that it will always happen that a person who stands up for dignity and fair play will be slapped down.) I was one of the bystanders who did nothing, then. I hope I can do something if it occurs again.

For the rest of us:
If you saw the Mel Gibson movie, Braveheart, about William Wallace, how did you feel during the torture scene near the end of the movie? Did you feel it was wrong and terrible and personally uncomfortable like the crowd in the scene? Or did you say, "Hey! Those people should just go along! Wallace should tell the torturer what he wants to hear."?

In the end, it's all about whether we can look in the mirror at the end of the day and like what we see.

 

[Aaron Lupo]

You are not being criticized by any of us here, IMO, as I reread all the posts.
The value of a Forum like The Cove is that we can aggregate the experience of many and learn to choose a path that fits when we come across a similar situation. Your candor in retelling the tale helps us all get a better sense of where WE fit in the universe.


In the end, it's all about whether we can look in the mirror at the end of the day and like what we see.

Wes- nope don't feel like I am being criticized at all. I am not sure about your last comment, if that is directed at me I certianly think it is uncalled for, if it is not directed at me then no hard feelings.

I realize that we are all different and will not handle the same situation in the same way, that is also a fact of life. Like I said before was my way better than yours, I don't think so, however, it was the way I decided to handel it. That is all I was saying. :truce:

 

[energy]

Freeeeeeeeeeedom!

Obviously, from the comments, some of us have been on the dirty end of the stick in similar circumstances and paid a bitter price. (I've been witness in my time to vindictive "blacklisting" of people who spoke out, trying to do the right thing. That doesn't make it a rule of thumb that it will always happen that a person who stands up for dignity and fair play will be slapped down.) I was one of the bystanders who did nothing, then. I hope I can do something if it occurs again.

And that's what I was alluding to. I too have seen it and been privvy to discussion about that person when they left the room. My silence was taken as agreement with the topic, even though it wasn't.

For the rest of us:
If you saw the Mel Gibson movie, Braveheart, about William Wallace, how did you feel during the torture scene near the end of the movie? Did you feel it was wrong and terrible and personally uncomfortable like the crowd in the scene? Or did you say, "Hey! Those people should just go along! Wallace should tell the torturer what he wants to hear."?

Wiilam was a dead duck no matter what he said. He knew it and the crowd knew it. Those who may have believed that he would be spared if he "fessed up" were naive and today we like to call them "team players".

In the end, it's all about whether we can look in the mirror at the end of the day and like what we see.

True, but even the Torturer has a mirror and loves the image. My mirror may show a person who just got shafted and I might not like what I see. My mirror might show me inspecting my camouflage face paint prior to conducting my own type of interview with that HR person.

 

[Icy Mountain]

Great discussion of tactics, we have met the enemy and they are HR!

I was interviewing in Chicago after being vetted by a recruiter. Conversations with prospective bosses and coworkers went extremely well and the business was a good fit, and the money was well worth the move. I was filling out the HR required "personality test" when the HR Mgr. came in, asked me to give her the forms and then informed me the interview was over. I asked why. She responded along the lines of "it's just over". I got the bum rush for the door. Luckily, the hiring manager was milling about near the exit. He told me that HR had determined that I did not actually have a BSEE from Purdue. I asked if the recruiter had not already confirmed my degree before sending plane tickets, he works for you, isn't he supposed to? Looks of "Hmmm, that's right! We didn't think of that." Call to recruiter. Conference call to Purdue registrar. Degree confirmed. Discovered HR person had rewritten my name and SSN rather than make a copy of the application and thus had not give the correct info to my alma mater. The personality tests were discarded and I was offered a job due to "grace under pressure", just what we need in a project manager. Turned it down, I don't need that.

I picked up a book, How Would You Move Mt. Fuji?: Microsoft's Cult of the Puzzle, William Poundstone, that contained a bunch of the "new style" interview questions.
Q: How would you move Mt. Fuji?
My A: What's the budget? Smartmouth alternate: Where do ya want it?

Q: I am holding a 6 shot revolver to your head. 2 consecutive chambers of the 6 are loaded. I spun the cylinder and just pulled the trigger and it did not fire. I am going to pull the trigger again. Do you want me to pull the trigger immediately or spin the cylinder first?
My A: Are my hands and feet tied up?
Q: No, it's just a simulation. Why do you ask?
My A: Because if I'm not tied up, I'm going to break your right arm while removing the gun from your possesion and kicking you in the groin to keep you from firing again and for being dumb enough to put a gun to my head in an interview!

 

[Wes Bucey]

Discovered HR person had rewritten my name and SSN rather than make a copy of the application and thus had not give the correct info to my alma mater.

How Would You Move Mt. Fuji?: Microsoft's Cult of the Puzzle, William Poundstone, that contained a bunch of the "new style" interview questions.
Q: How would you move Mt. Fuji?
My A: What's the budget? Smartmouth alternate: Where do ya want it?

Don't you sometimes marvel at the fact the people who do these things and ask these questions are employed and have power over those who aren't? I guess I might have been in the Smartmouth category - I would have asked, "How far?" This is similar to a Zen koan (a riddle to which the answer produces enlightenment.) Here's a koan which reflects my attitude toward personality tests:
A disciple of the HR sect once came to to the QMaster as he was eating his
morning meal.

"I would like to give you this personality test", said the HR,
"because I want you to be happy."

The QMaster took the paper that was offered him and put it into the toaster,
saying: "I wish the toaster to be happy, too."

 

[Gary L. Phillips - 2007]

Re: Job Seeking Advice and Discussion

Rough time, for sure. Most of has had experiences like those yoy have spoken about. I for one do not think thst it would do that much good to talk to Top Management about your plight. Although most execs that really care would give you the benefit of the doubt and hear you out, they might be far and few between which means they couldn't care less and would view you as a whinner. The organization as a whole needs to be looked at. If in your estimation the organization seems to be run with a good bit of committment from senior management toward those of a lower state, then there might be the possiblilty of presenting your side to receptive ears. If there does not appear to be a well developed system of ETHICAL behavior within the company, then you will only be wasting your time and the time of those to whom you would eventually have to report.

I don't think that having a 'witness' would do much good in an organization that does not focus on ethics, since the witness will probably have to think about his/her own security in the establishment after you have brought them into the mix. Too, if you were to be successful in beating the HR Manager at his/her game, how will others view you during the course of your employment in the organization????

Tough, as well as rough...Kinda like the old saying in the oil field: "If it doesn't kill you, it only makes you stronger."

I agree that the best path to take is to present a great face and ask why there might be any doubt concerning your qualifications and present the possibility of discussing the issue(s) further at that point. If the HR person is a pant load the discussion will not take place, if she/he is actually open minded, assuming there was a slip of the tongue, then a professional dialogue can take place. Jmho. :thedeal:

 

[Tom Slack]

Must admit I haven't had time to read all the posts. It seems careers in Quality are very difficult. If something goes wrong then Quality is the blame. If Quality points out an "issue", then they are finger pointing. If nothing goes wrong then why do we need them, they aren't value added. ASQ need a CIP program, Certified Industrial Politician. I don't know why I keep persueing this field.

Just had a need to state the obvious. Energy, please let us know if we can help.

Good Luck Energy,

Tom