Terminating an Internal Audit - Area totally out of control

Randy

Super Moderator
#21
Re: Terminating an Internal Audit

:topic:
Randy and Sidney, I hope for the audited organizations you folks were the lead auditors....if not what where they holding...Howitzers (sp):D

I'm a former Arkansas cop Bob from back in the 70's & 80's. (We carried cannons):lol:
 
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B

Bob Bonville

#22
Re: Terminating an Internal Audit

Bob, concerning the major/minor distinction on findings. I came from the Man Space environment. We even had a catagory of Critical finding on the high side, and Incidental finding on the low side. It all boils down to who gets exposed to the finding and how long it should take to achieve Root Cause Corrective Action.
 

Jen Kirley

Quality and Auditing Expert
Staff member
Admin
#23
Re: Terminating an Internal Audit

I would have continued with the audit and drawn up a summary that would help answer the "so what" and "what does this mean to me" questions.

While there should be supervision and the support of management, IMO surveillance is more about inspection than control. Even better than those little internal audits would be not having the need to do them.

So, when writing up results I would have used the mass of data and drawn up an analysis of which looked like matters of definition, implementation and/or effectiveness. I might have categorized them by subject or risk.

I have found that audits serve little practical use unless they help people understand what it means from a systems perspective. That might have helped move the thought process away from a homework assignment to a way toward a more permanent fix.
 
N

n866fandp

#24
Re: Terminating an Internal Audit

I would have carried out my audit. In my short time as an internal auditor I have wittnessed a couple of pretty hairy situations. I find it best to include all findings available. Though it is hard to remain objective. By making sure to lump as many findings under each clause found to be in nonconformance as possible it will make it easier to root cause and countermeasure for the departmental managment. In turn keeping them from holding a serious grudge.
At the same time it seams you got the results you desire so whos to say it was wrong.:applause:
As long as your audit was value added and effective it worked.:agree1:
 
B

Bob Bonville

#25
Re: Terminating an Internal Audit

Bottom line, my tactic worked. They knew what to do and knew how to do it but for what ever reason, they had neglected their responsibilities over that particular period of time and had to suffer the embarresment of being the only department ever to have an audit terminated because of lack of attention or control.

Inspite of the 1 week delay, I was still able to achieve my audit schedule attainment goals because I had a 2 week pad in it.
 

SteelMaiden

Super Moderator
Super Moderator
#27
Re: Terminating an Internal Audit

I'm glad this has worked out in your favor. Hopefully you'll never have to face it again!:agree1:

But, not necessarily directed at your situation, but a general "devil's advocate" thought comes to my mind. What is it within a quality management system is it that allows a dept., or group to ignore something (ISO 9001) that is supposed to be a way of life for an organization? Where is supervisory and management for an area while all is going to h#!! in a handbasket? Does top management buy into the program, and if it does, are they going to take the appropriate steps to ensure that the lower echelons buy in? Where is the quality group? Don't they try to build some relationship with "the little people?" Aren't there some sort of quality teams that include members from all across the company that allows delegation of quality system championship?

Like I said, not necessarily directed towards your company, but these are the questions I would have if I went to audit an area and found what you did. :2cents: Sounds like there may be more at hand than whipping one area back in shape.
 
#28
Re: Terminating an Internal Audit

Mr. Bonville (Bob) (not the 'other' Bob!)

Why were you doing the audit? Giving notice is O.K but only just. It seems to me like you're expecting them to jump to attention just because you're doing an audit! Did you consider doing any more than issuing (what they treat as) a warning?

My guess is, you didn't involve these folks in the planning and preparation for the audit. What issues were you going to make the scope of the audit? Anything that was on their radar screen? Anything that was of importance to the customer, regulatory compliance or the bottom line? Or their acheivements of internal objectives?

If not, then I believe that 'as you sow, so shall you reap'..........If you don't put in the effort to make the audit important to them, they will hardly see any reason to respond to your telling them 'I'm on my way......"

Sorry to be blunt, but in over 20 years of auditing in many scenarios, I've witnessed all kinds of well meaning auditors get 'wrapped around the axle' over such issues. The fact is, it's your behaviours, (IMHO) right from the get go, which result in their responses of apathy and indifference to the QMS.

It's a perfectly normal and predictable human trait - so, as auditors, if we expect this to happen, we have to accommodate it and plan for it.
 

Randy

Super Moderator
#29
Re: Terminating an Internal Audit

Wayyyyyyyy:topic:

Too bad you don't need any mechanics in the $100K range Bob. I have tons of maintenance and test flight experience on your type of aircraft (only maintenance on the Corsair though and it was one of the ones in Black Sheep Squadron)

Nice website BTW.
 
B

Bob Bonville

#30
Re: Terminating an Internal Audit

Andy, the way I look at it they have their job and I have mine. I can't worry about what they do or don't do in preparation for an audit, I just go in and call the shots the way I see them. I don't hold their hand although I try to be fair in my assessments. Again, in my experienced (35+years) opinion they were not ready to be audited at that particular moment. I wanted them to figure out why and fix it themselves. I have never been part of the solution that way.

The only warning, if you wish to call it that is that I will be back and I expect your area to be in shape. I audit to a predetermined checklist and typically let the situations I observe take me where I need to go. The other thing that I kept in mind was that if I had stayed and throughly beat them up, the metrics would show a huge spike that could have jepordized some careers because they were not representative and had exposure at the very highest levels. I knew this was an amomoly and tried to treat it as such.
 
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