Terminating an Internal Audit - Area totally out of control

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Bob Bonville

#31
Re: Terminating an Internal Audit

Randy, They took her up a week ago. She roared to life again after 3 years of rework and TLC. She took off on the long runway but was up in the sky like a helo in no time.

This particular plane was in the TV series. I understand that our owner found it somewhere in europe and purchased it form a collector. They transported it across the pond but flew it down to VA from somewhere north of here. Plans are to make it a 2 seater and use it for some experimental purposes associated with our Laser sensing products. She is still fully equipped with all the guns etc.
 
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#32
Re: Terminating an Internal Audit

Andy, the way I look at it they have their job and I have mine. I can't worry about what they do or don't do in preparation for an audit, I just go in and call the shots the way I see them. I don't hold their hand although I try to be fair in my assessments. Again, in my experienced (35+years) opinion they were not ready to be audited at that particular moment. I wanted them to figure out why and fix it themselves. I have never been part of the solution that way.

The only warning, if you wish to call it that is that I will be back and I expect your area to be in shape. I audit to a predetermined checklist and typically let the situations I observe take me where I need to go. The other thing that I kept in mind was that if I had stayed and throughly beat them up, the metrics would show a huge spike that could have jepordized some careers because they were not representative and had exposure at the very highest levels. I knew this was an amomoly and tried to treat it as such.

Then, Bob, I'm sorry to say that you will always be walking into these types of situations. It's like "finding your kids with their hands in the cookie jar". They will resent you and your audits, management won't see any benefit from them, you'll all be reduced to doing them 'because ISO-Says-So" and it'll all be a waste of time and effort - IHMO
 

SteelMaiden

Super Moderator
Super Moderator
#33
Re: Terminating an Internal Audit

Bob, is your sole job function as an auditor? I read your comment about you did your job, it made me wonder. I live in kind of a lean little facility where we all wear several hats, sometimes stacked on top of one another. Our auditors are actually encouraged to helping areas with compliance (not necessarily the ones they audited and found out of compliance) first because they know the standard and the system, and second because they can help build positive relationships.

Tell us a little more about your structure. How big is your audit team? Are they all dedicated to the one job function? I am assuming that you are not the MR. How does the MR work with these individual areas to increase awareness and promote participation?
 
B

Bob Bonville

#34
Re: Terminating an Internal Audit

In that capacity I was one of 6 full time internal auditors, we only did internal audits. We performed a variety of them in a 10 building facility on 100 acres with over 2000 employees engaged in manned space flight projects for NASA.

I am now in a small technology company serving in the capacity of Quality Systems Manager. We have <30 employees and I have just rolled out my last procedure. I will be auditing beginning in sometime in November, with hopes of being As9100 Registered later next summer. Like you I ware a number of hats.
 

SteelMaiden

Super Moderator
Super Moderator
#35
Re: Terminating an Internal Audit

Thanks, just wanted to make sure everyone had a good snapshot of the responsibilities. As stated earlier, glad it worked out the way you wanted.
 
J

JaneB

#36
Re: Terminating an Internal Audit

I can't answer for the particular situation - I have occasionally terminated an audit.

But I kinda tend to agree with Andy that it's likely you're going to continue to walk into those kinds of situations... and one or two of the things you said bother me a little bit.

Andy, the way I look at it they have their job and I have mine. I can't worry about what they do or don't do in preparation for an audit, I just go in and call the shots the way I see them.
Sure - but you're all working for the same organisation, surely? And jointly trying to reach its goals? This sounds like a me vs them. They aren't the enemy, surely?

I will be back and I expect your area to be in shape.
Actually, I hope management expects, wants and demands this, and is leading by example. But the wording of this makes me a bit uncomfortable, as it sounds just a bit too much like a policing-type attitude. Nothing here about adding value, looking for improvement, etc. Nope, I'm just here to see you are in shape. In other words, I really am here to check up on you.

I audit to a predetermined checklist and typically let the situations I observe take me where I need to go.
Again, this sounds just perhaps a little rigid.
 
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J

joshua_sx1

#37
Re: Terminating an Internal Audit

…I agree with everyone’s sentimental here, you should continue the audit… regardless the auditee prepare or not as long as you are following your audit procedures…

…but on the second thought, terminating internal audit under that given circumstances, well, will probably gave you another edge… and as you mentioned, “it worked”…

Bottom line, my tactic worked...
...for result-orientated person, I guess, that settle the case…
 
J

JaneB

#38
Re: Terminating an Internal Audit

…I agree with everyone’s sentimental here, you should continue the audit… regardless the auditee prepare or not as long as you are following your audit procedures…

…but on the second thought, terminating internal audit under that given circumstances, well, will probably gave you another edge… and as you mentioned, “it worked”…

...for result-orientated person, I guess, that settle the case…
Gee, Joshua, that's called having 'a bob each way' down here :D

Yes, 'it worked'. But was that a short-term fix? Will it also 'work' in the longer term?
 
J

joshua_sx1

#39
Re: Terminating an Internal Audit

…well, I knew you are not going to agree on this unpopular thought (and other too), but sometimes we have to be flexible to get the results… even it meant of pushing everything to the edge… (I said pushing to the edge, not to let it fall)…

…what Bob did is not an ideal thing to do… but I guess, he never disobey any procedures by terminating that audit… it is only “unethical” thing to do but no procedure has been violated… even ISO standard does not stipulate any violation (or nonconformance) for terminating an audit… it is still the organization prerogative…

...it may not work on a longer term, but hey, it work on short-term fix – which they need asap… and which will give them more time to deal with the longer term plan…
 
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joe098

#40
Re: Terminating an Internal Audit

In my limited experance as an auditor "3 years" I would of tried to follow the audit trail and try to pin point the problem of the QMS as a whole. It seems like there is more of a problem than the area you went to.
 
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