The Best Way to Make an Internal Audit Checklist

E

energy

#21
Re: Internal Audits

Originally posted by Curt
:bigwave:
:truce: I have given up trying to be the lone soldier when it comes to compliance to the standard. I feel that one person writing the procedures and checking for compliance is asking for trouble.
Curt
If I didn't have a 7 person Steering Committee reviewing procedures, I would have probably allowed the Auditors a whack at the standard. As I said previously, 4 members of the committee are Internal Auditors, so I have the help I need. You're right, you shouldn't have to go it alone. When it comes to the standard, most people who don't have regular exposure are looking for the boogey man and begin to act like attorneys trying to demonstrate their vast knowledge in interpreting the written word. Our meetings can grow quite contentious and have ended up with the GM, my boss, slamming his fist down on the table and saying, "That's it. We do it this way. Case closed. Get on with it". Most times it's directed at me! :vfunny: But, I have my moments when he knows I'm more than a match for him on this subject and not just his subordinate. :rolleyes: :ko: :smokin:
 
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C

Curt de Mich

#22
:biglaugh: And here I thought I had the market cornered on getting the BOSS pi**** off...:rolleyes: Glad to see I am not alone.

Curt
 
R

Randy Stewart

#23
Our reviewers/auditors make up the Operations Engineering Group. Within this group we have Scheduling, Industrial Eng, Quality Eng and now a "Black Belt Candidate". We have tried to take a cross cultural section of the manufactuing area to drive the continuous improvement effort. I am the only one really schooled in the "Standards" (Cert Lead Auditor) so we work on the processes as a team to ensure compliance. It works for us in that it keeps us as part of the "team concept" and not the Audit Gestopo.:biglaugh:
We review all the findings and direct the problem solving/root cause analysis programs. I end up presenting this information at a monthly Steering Committee meeting and weekly Staff meetings. Coupled the 5S initiatives, Lean Principles, etc. rolled out to the staff managers with the meeting minutes and deeper dives, you end up with a pretty complete package to show the external guys when they come in.:bonk:
 

Howard Atkins

Forum Administrator
Staff member
Admin
#24
Originally posted by Jim Wade

I ask this with tongue firmly in cheek, admittedly.

But look carefully at the wording:

"The responsibilities and requirements for planning and conducting audits and for reporting results and maintaining records (see 4.2.4) shall be defined in a documented procedure".

Elsewhere in 8.2.2 we are told we "shall conduct internal audits", and an audit programme "shall be planned", but nowhere does it say we shall have a record or that we shall report results.

rgds Jim [/B]
Ok so you don't have a report but: 5.6.2 Review input:
"results of audits"
How do you give results of audits with out some form of report?
 
R

Randy Stewart

#25
It's not that we don't have a report. I report out to our Steering Committee monthly. We do not perform the "formal" internal audits (clipboard, checklist, etc.). Utilizing the skills of industrial, process and quality engineers linked to the corrective/preventive actions and continuous improvement initiatives, we have a reporting system. :bigwave:
 
E

Eli Black

#26
From my point of view (biased from my teacher of course):

A checklist is simply a tool. Your audits after registration are often focused on compliance to your policies and procedures not directly against the standard itself since you are already registered (thus obiouvly compliant to the stnadard). Now is the time to check to make sure "you do as you say you are doing).

A checklist is not evidence for a report. Evidence is, essentially, anything which invloves the process being audited (p.o.'s, forms, calibrated or uncalibrated tools, etc.).

Therefore, for our auditors, we have a "loose" checklist where the questions we ask might be jotted down on our form along with the evidence of our findings.

These then are collected and kept with internal records and are the basis of the internal reports, but are not the reports themselves of course.

I am from a very small company of 20 people, so reducing the need for strict rules within the company is a plus for us.
 

E Wall

Just Me!
Super Moderator
#27
In the hopes of heading off some wrong-thinking:
I can see where someone might also argue that if you are only audited annually to the Standard...documents that are updated in between time might change the companies compliance.
However, as the ISO Coordinator (and hopefully everyone certified has someone performing same task regardless of position) when a document change is requested my job is to evaluate the document(s) to ensure that compliance is maintained.

This in itself (IMHO) is a form of internal audting to the standard so no the actual Internal Audits don't need to address the standard only how they perform against their process procedures.

We also require a checklist be developed for internal audits. The auditors must take into consideration the documents used by that process as well as results of previous audits and any other nonconformances reported (not a witch hunt...just additional follow-up to ensure CA taken was long term effective and maintained).

Eileen
 

xfngrs

Quite Involved in Discussions
#28
I have a question...We have been using the standard QS9000 AIAG checklists for auditing which restricts us to auditing by element. Has anyone seen a book or CD or something with an Audit Trail version of checklists in it? Especially keeping in mind moving towards TS-16949?
 
T

Ted Black

#29
I would also be interested in information on process based checklists and how to develop them. I attended a seminar on ISO 9001:2000 and realized that we would need process checklists but these would need to be uniquely developed for your individual company and processes to fit they way things are done. I want to have a checklist to guide the auditor (usually myself) on what to look for and what to ask in order to get in as deep as possible and uncover those elusive improvement opportunities.
I also wonder how many auditors are able to judge if a process is efficient. How can you write a finding like "the process of issuing a purchase order takes too long and involves more personnel than necessary"? Who am I to tell the purchasing department this. As one of our quality managers says "I'm just the stupid QA guy. What do I know?".
:biglaugh: :bonk:
 
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