The dilemma of Falsifying Inspection Results - aka Fraud

Wes Bucey

Quite Involved in Discussions
#41
Re: The dilemma of Falsifying Inspection Results

I'm sure by now many of you think my halo is so tight because my head is so swollen.

From an early age I learned there is a difference between a "social courtesy" and an outrght lie. Mostly the social niceties came from mom or fussy aunts who constanty intoned the mantra, "If you can't say something nice, don't say anything at all."

Carrying that thought a little further. In an interview situation when applying for a job, both sides are testing each other for a "fit." The candidate wouldn't be there if his resume didn't show promise nor would he come if the organization had a lousy reputation. The interview is the opportunity for both sides to make a good estimate of a long term relationship. Think of it as "first date."

Now, Ive been married so long I've almost fogotten about dating, but I do remember you don't say stuff like, "I hope you are not a gold digger, because I'll drop you in a New York minute." The girl doesn't say, "If you don't make at least $100,000 net after taxes, hit the road."

Ultimatums are so FINAL and they sure do kill a conversational flow. Clever people are more subtle and learn a lot more as a result.

Instead of saying, "You better not ask me to lie or I'll blow the whistle on you." The clever guy might say, "Let me ask you a hypothetical: What would or has happened here at this company when a batch of product ready to ship to a customer is suddenly discovered to be nonconforming according to the specs the customer expected to receive?"

Surprisingly, the answer to such an open ended question will be much more helpful in determning whether this is fated to be a long term or short term relationship. Most liars can give a quick short lie, but often contradict themselves or don't make sense when trying to weave a whole story that hasn't been rehearsed.

For example, I would start edging for the door if the guy begins, "Well, it all depends . . ." and the guy would need some pretty fancy footwork to keep me.

Some guys are clueless idiots. That's different from being a venal liar, but either one can be impossible to work for or with.
 
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mlthompson

#42
Re: The dilemma of Falsifying Inspection Results

Instead of saying, "You better not ask me to lie or I'll blow the whistle on you." The clever guy might say, "Let me ask you a hypothetical: What would or has happened here at this company when a batch of product ready to ship to a customer is suddenly discovered to be nonconforming according to the specs the customer expected to receive?"
Good word! I realize discussing this stuff during an interview is a senstive and volatile issue, but for some of us it is a career limiting problem.
 

psyched1

Involved In Discussions
#43
Last year the small company I was proud to work for was taken over by a global corporate entity. During a management meeting we were told by our new General Manager that we are too honest in regrads to costing and quality. I have a real hard time trying to understand this.

In quality all we have is our integrity once breached our word, signature and judgement mean little. I refuse to back date or change data. It should be used only as evidence to prove or disprove an issue. It is usually when people tie emotions into results that problems occur.

If we have chosen this profession then it is out obligation to bring to light problems not hide them. If we are fired for that which we voice then we were not where we needed to be.
 
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RosieA

#44
Re: The dilemma of Falsifying Inspection Results

I also remember the day the Challenger exploded. The company I worked for at the time had developed and built many of the components on the shuttles.
I remember us all sitting in a room staring at the TV with a sick feeling in our stomachs awaiting each public information release in agony. We did not contribute to the failure but trust me we all felt the pain.
As one old Quality Gal to another, I remember that day too. We were all gathered around a radio listening to the coverage. We also sold components into that Shuttle and we were in agony also. It wasn't us then, and I work every day to be sure it won't be us in the future too.

I have never been asked to falsify records. However I did work (briefly) for a company whose General Manager falsified legal documents several times during my tenure. When I became aware of this, I consulted our family lawyer as to how to deal with this and what, if any, my legal culpability might be. He urged me to address the issue in writing to the GM and to copy my boss. In the letter he said I should clearly point out the questionable legality of what he'd done and what the repurcussions might be. I did this, and never got a reply. I set about finding a new job as soon as the email was sent. I still have the email in my files at home, because "Time wounds all heels" and someday, this GM will be caught and if he is, I want to be covered.

It's very hard to just quit a job on principle when you're the primary wage earner in the family. You need to weigh what you know is happening against the needs of your family. I didn't do anything wrong, but I knew the comapny was doing wrong. It's easy to say that you'd rather work 3 jobs than compromise your integrity, but first you have to FIND 3 jobs, and in the meantime, do you ask your kid to drop out of college? Do you tell your elderly mother that you can't afford to pay for her elder apartment? It took me a year to find a better job. And I appreciate where I am now everyday.
 

RCW

Quite Involved in Discussions
#45
Re: The dilemma of Falsifying Inspection Results

IMHO it takes the thread from the simple "would you falsify a record?" that Covers have responded with a unanimous "No!" to on to the general topic of business ethics and the "little white lie" that we all know takes place in most companies on a daily basis.
Sifting through this thread........did anybody expect somebody to say here "Yeah, I falsify records! I'd do it in a minute if I was asked or told. What's the big deal anyway?"?

There are a lot of companies run that way out there and despite what we want to believe, many of them are still in business. It seems the easy way and the right way are often two different roads.

Sorry for those bummer thoughts. I'll go to my happy place now and think happy thoughts.....
 
D

Dan Armstrong

#46
Re: The dilemma of Falsifying Inspection Results

Sifting through this thread........did anybody expect somebody to say here "Yeah, I falsify records! I'd do it in a minute if I was asked or told. What's the big deal anyway?"?

There are a lot of companies run that way out there and despite what we want to believe, many of them are still in business. It seems the easy way and the right way are often two different roads.

Sorry for those bummer thoughts. I'll go to my happy place now and think happy thoughts.....
I think anyone willing to falsify records would be unwilling to state so in such a public forum. More likely they would remain silent and hope the topic dies a quiet death. :ko:

I have worked jobs where the specifications were little more than guidelines, and as long as the mating parts would go together the product shipped. Fortunately, no lives were at risk. I always made sure that the person that vetoed my findings signed off on it in a prominant way.
 
M

mlthompson

#47
Re: The dilemma of Falsifying Inspection Results

Sifting through this thread........did anybody expect somebody to say here "Yeah, I falsify records! I'd do it in a minute if I was asked or told. What's the big deal anyway?"?
I personally did not expect anyone to respond that was currently involved or willing to falsify. I do feel that this thread has offered a lot of insight and maybe there are folks that are in this situation and need a little counsel on how to handle it.
 
C

chaosweary

#49
I remember once that people were sent on a mission to inspect a country for weapons of mass destruction. Matter of fact a country went to War (I believe) based on those results.
Those results (I believe) were manipulated to a positive, then back to a negative! How does that set a precedent for integrity in the big scheme of things!

I have never falsified a record, deleting upon command is another story...
 

Wes Bucey

Quite Involved in Discussions
#50
I agree it takes extraordinary strength of character to be a martyr when someone who wields power over you says, "Do what I say or else . . ."

Each of us looks at life through a different lens. Some of us find ourselves the victim of a bully at an early age. How that affects us varies from those who look for every opportunity to get revenge to those who are mentally disturbed to the point of suicide.

I heard one recovering addict tell a tale of failed suicide at age eight after a bully forced her to eat a worm in front of her third grade class. She claimed her entire life felt worthless from that moment on. On the other hand, I had a kid in my second grade class who ate worms to get attention. Last I heard of him about 15 or 20 years ago, he ran his own multi-million dollar plumbing contracting business.

My point, I think, is not whether you succumb to the pressure of a bully to perform a wrongful act, but how you deal wth the rest of your life after that.

If it was criminal, consult an attorney - wrongful acts committed under duress may be excused.

If it was just humiliating, not criminal, decide HOW to avoid the situation again. (Think about REDACTED harrassment - many folks would rather put up with rude remarks by a jerk than quit a good paying job, but draw the line at being touched or assaulted.) Only you can decide what you value most. Avoidance may range from just ignoring a remark to filing a complaint.
 
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