The Elusive Culture Change

E

energy

#41
You had it!

Mike S. said:

And based on what you said I felt I might be guilty by association of also being an "idiot", "ignorant" and a person with thoughts like "garbage" because I happen to share many (not all) of Rush's opinions.
Perhaps I misinterpreted your words. Mea culpa.
Mike S.
Mike S.

Of course it is just a harmless misinterpretation, more like a harmless insinuation. In other words, "If the shoe fits, wear it".
Because it wasn't adressed to you, personally, it wasn't meant to demean the garbage followers. It was just a written conversation between two professionals in agreement that there must be something wrong with those that don't see it their way.
Philosophers, Gurus....etc. is where I have the most fun. It, at times, oozes aloofness, arrogance, intellect:bonk:, philosphy....and all those other things that the unfortunate masses haven't been educated in, or fail to understand.

It also reminds me to be very careful, lest I become like that. Why do you think I chose my signature?

Nothing personal guys. JMHO

In advance, Mea Culprit!:vfunny: :ko: :smokin:
 
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B

Bruce Epstein

#42
Nothing worse than opinions masquerading as facts

energy said:

Call me an idiot. Rush is dead on and says things that others are thinking about and it's refreshing. He has been extremely accurate with his assessments.
I'll grant him this much: he knows his audience and gives them exactly what they want to hear. Personally, his mixture of misogynism, racism, and cynicism doesn't appeal to me.

He and his listeners are certainly entitled to their opinion, and the right to express it. However, the one thing which ticks me off more than anything (not just Mr. Limbaugh does this, though he seems to do it frequently) is when these opinions are presented as if they were FACTS (which they often are not).

Bruce
 
E

energy

#43
Okay

Bruce,

Well, you drove me to the dictionary on misogynism. Hatred of women? Is it misology-hatred of reason? Racist? Is that because he's Caucasian and tells you things that you don't want to hear? There is plenty of racism to go around and it's not all aimed at minorities. Anyway, you left out homophobic. Does that bother you, too? I agree that many commentators state things as fact, including Rush. My problem is that I don't have the time to check it out. It just sounds good. I've been thinking the same things myself. It has more to do with our bend/tilt towards the topics of today.
How's the weather in Paris? We were in the 90's yesterday. High 80's today.
 
B

Bruce Epstein

#45
Not as far away as you think!

energy said:

How's the weather in Paris? We were in the 90's yesterday. High 80's today.
Actually, from April 14 to 26 I'm only about 100 miles northeast of you. (Business trip, not vacation)

Bruce
 

Kevin Mader

One of THE Original Covers!
Staff member
Admin
#46
It appears that my comments about Rush somehow projected themselves onto folks here at the Cove. My apologies, but my comments weren’t targeted at offending anyone here. Guilt by association?: I am more open-minded than you give me credit for. I listen to Rush on occasion, need I say more?

However, I do take exception to the personal attacks.
 

Mike S.

Happy to be Alive
Trusted Information Resource
#47
Kevin,

C'mon -- personal attacks? Lighten up. I think the replies to your post were softer and less attacking than YOUR original post, yet you take exception?

You're obviously an intelligent guy. And as a "super moderator" -- I submit MHO that a moderator should be talented in the ways of mediation and arbitration, soft(er) spoken, and not so easily offended. You said you did not intend to offend anyone, and I'll take you at your word, but surely upon further reflection you must realize that if you are going to attack the thoughts and opinions of someone popular, whether it be Rush or Deming, those who agree with that person's thoughts and opinions are going to come to the defense. And when you make statements of fact (not opinions) as you did that that popular person is a "complete idiot" and "woefully ignorant" those who believe the same thing are going to be offended. There is no way around it -- even Spock would call it logical.

And suggesting that because you listen to Rush sometimes means you are open-minded does not prove anything to me. Arafat might listen to what Sharon says, but that does not mean he is being open-minded!

Just a few suggestions from a relative newcomer: State opinions as such and facts as such. If you're going to attack something or someone strongly, expect a correspondingly strong a defense from the supporters of the opposite opinion; therefore be careful how strongly you come across. And don't get hurt when you get back as strong as you give. Fair is fair.

Maybe we'll find the next subject something we can agree on!?

Mike S.
 

Kevin Mader

One of THE Original Covers!
Staff member
Admin
#48
Mike,

I am sure that there is more that we agree on than we disagree on. We agree Arafat is not open-minded, at least about the recent, longstanding situation. However, if you have read my posts here for the last few years, you will find that for the most part, I am. This is not to say that I can’t be the opposite or will not take the opposite position on occasion.

Although my opinion of Rush is not good, I agree I was a bit harsh. It was a broader condemnation of him than it needed to be and should have focused on the instance rather than the whole. I also accept that it is fair that those who endorse a position/person come to its/their defense. I would. And, you are right that I should be softer spoken as a moderator (“super moderator” is something Marc bestowed on me and not a label I would give or gave myself) by facilitating more than contributing. This is not to say that I won't change hats from time to time.

Folks will make statements here from time to time and forget to preceed their comments with an "IMHO", "Stepping onto a soap box", etc. (I try to give a warning when I do project). As energy pointed out, we should give folks the benefit of the doubt, especially in cases where/when we know know it would generally apply. Anyone has the right to question the person (perhaps has the obligation) to ask for clarification, but in no instance should we find it acceptable to attack another Cove member (or anyone else as you point out). Thick or thin skin, there's little room here or anywhere for it. I hope that you agree.

Regards,

Kevin
 
E

energy

#49
Have you been busy?

Kevin,

Got to jump in here, for a few. We met here. I enjoy your posts and your gift with the written word. As a Maderator , I found you very tolerant of my irreverence for the often eulogized fathers of Quality and I have no complaints, what so ever. We have a new group of intelligent young professionals frequenting the Cove who haven’t really gotten the feel for the intent of some of the posts. What you and others say can, and will, be taken quite literally. When I saw Michael’s post regarding your bashing of Rush L, I joined in because it was another shot at two intellects discussing something common to one another without regard to who may have another opinion. That’s all it was. You know how I love to pop balloons.
Mike S.’s last post caught me by surprise because I thought you handled the situation pretty good. Your personal attack thing actually looked like an after thought.

Mike S.,

I never kick a guy in the hand when it is extended. If you read back on Kevin’s posts, you will be hard pressed to see another post that resembled the Rush thing. There are plenty of arrogant, pompous individuals to vent on here. I do. Kevin isn’t one of them. He just happens to be a Moderator for threads dealing with Gurus, Philosophers that draws those types of people. As I said before, I romp through here on occasion to rub shoulders with the crème de la crème of the Quality world just to remind them that the quality world doesn’t revolve only around them. Kevin is one of the good guys. He has to be. We drink the same water. He’s only about 15 miles away from me, even though we never met. :vfunny:

I always enjoy a good brawl, but I feel this one is a little one sided. No offense intended. Don’t forget it’s my birthday tomorrow, 4/23/43. Just send money!


:agree: :smokin:
 
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