The future of the Process Approach to Auditing

G

GoKats78

#1
I have heard rumors that IAOB is considering dropping the process approach in favor of "clause-driven" auditing in the next revision of ISO 9001. I find that hard to fathom ... but at the same time I am not sure the process approach is understood very well by many (internal) auditors.

Has anyone heard this as well, or should I tell my source he's all wet?
 
Elsmar Forum Sponsor
#2
Since I believe it was the IATF/IAOB who instigated such an approach after discovering that QS-9000 audits were often done clause based, it sounds hokey to me...
 
G

GoKats78

#3
I misspoke...not IAOB..bur rather ISO is considering dropping the process approach and the change would be reflected in the new rev of ISO 19011...
 
#5
I misspoke...not IAOB..bur rather ISO is considering dropping the process approach and the change would be reflected in the new rev of ISO 19011...
Even if they do "drop it" - hard since they never really explained what it is - most effective auditors and management systems are founded on process and systems! I was only taught process, back in 1985!
 

harry

Trusted Information Resource
#6
I misspoke...not IAOB..bur rather ISO is considering dropping the process approach and the change would be reflected in the new rev of ISO 19011...
Hard to rationalize because it is the way business had been operating since time immemorial. To me, the so-called process approach was developed to help many auditors who are 'line' people and whose 'world' is the silo they are in.
 
S

supermac

#7
Without naming names, GoKats78, who is ISO? The secretary general? ISO/TMB? ISO/TC 176? Or someone who knows someone. I apologise if I sound harsh. I don't mean to be personal. But there are many people who will tell you things that are just rumour and speculation. As a member of both Working Groups I can say AT THIS TIME there are no plans to 'drop the process approach'. Of course that may change.
 
S

supermac

#8
I would not disagree about the 'they never really explained what it is'. I would include outsourcing and competence in the top 3 goodies introduced in the 2000 edition of ISO 9001 that need a lot of explanation. However ISO/TC 176 did (rather belatedly) publish the freely available 'Guidance on the concept and use of the process approach for management systems'
I have long been a proponent of the "why not publish a lot of free guidance on the really difficult stuff" approach. Unfortunately standards bodies are in the business of selling stuff. :(
I too am of the 'process is just business, right?' school - I go back to 78. But a lot of certified companies were and still are of the 'documented procedure' school.
 
G

GoKats78

#9
Without naming names, GoKats78, who is ISO? The secretary general? ISO/TMB? ISO/TC 176? Or someone who knows someone. I apologise if I sound harsh. I don't mean to be personal. But there are many people who will tell you things that are just rumour and speculation. As a member of both Working Groups I can say AT THIS TIME there are no plans to 'drop the process approach'. Of course that may change.

Supermac - that was my question also..I had spoken to someone on the Working Groups a few months back and he was pretty solid in the "process approach" camp...
 

Sidney Vianna

Post Responsibly
Leader
Admin
#10
I misspoke...not IAOB..bur rather ISO is considering dropping the process approach and the change would be reflected in the new rev of ISO 19011...
Probably someone had the same misunderstanding that I demonstrated in post #195 of the What should be changed in the ISO 9001:2015 Standard? thread, promptly corrected by my esteemed colleague Howste in post #196.
 
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