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The ISO 9001:2008 addendum - What would you like to add or subtract?

The ISO 9001:2008 addendum - What would you like to add or subtract?

  • I wanna add new clause(s) on .......

    Votes: 2 14.3%
  • Subtract clause or sub clause....

    Votes: 5 35.7%
  • I don't know yet

    Votes: 9 64.3%

  • Total voters
    14

Jim Wynne

Staff member
Admin
#41
clause 7.4.1 states "The organization shall ensure that purchased product conforms to specified purchase requirements"

clause 7.4.3 states " The organization shall establish and implement the inspection or other activities necessary for ensuring that purchased product meets specified purchase requirements"

correct me if I am wrong but does this not say the same? One or the other but unnecessary to state both.
Dave
C'mon, Dave, they're clearly different. 7.4.3 has more words. :read:
 
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Paul Simpson

Trusted Information Resource
#45
clause 7.4.1 states "The organization shall ensure that purchased product conforms to specified purchase requirements"

clause 7.4.3 states " The organization shall establish and implement the inspection or other activities necessary for ensuring that purchased product meets specified purchase requirements"

correct me if I am wrong but does this not say the same? One or the other but unnecessary to state both.
Dave
The clauses cover some of the same ground but they are not the same in any way. Taking a simple example:

7.4.1 says the organization designs its systems to ensure the product it buys in meets its needs. That includes suplplier selection, purchasing processes and verification of the product (from 7.4.3). If the organization decides in 7.4.1 that it only buys from registered firms, only buys against a specification and monitors in house rejects then it could decide (in 7.4.3) that there is no need for incoming inspection.

Pretty much all the clauses are there for a purpose. We could all argue about the way the standard is put together (have a look at other threads for examples of how some Covers dislike the existing structure - and others defend it)
 

Jim Wynne

Staff member
Admin
#46
The clauses cover some of the same ground but they are not the same in any way.
:confused:

Pretty much all the clauses are there for a purpose.
But that doesn't mean that the purpose makes sense.

We could all argue about the way the standard is put together (have a look at other threads for examples of how some Covers dislike the existing structure - and others defend it)
Do you mean that we shouldn't want to improve it, or that it's beyond the abilities of mere mortals to make it better?

Look at it in terms of objective evidence. If 7.4.3 weren't there, would you audit any differently?
 

Sidney Vianna

Post Responsibly
Staff member
Admin
#47
The WD2 of ISO9001:2009 states:

7.4.1 Purchasing process

Where purchased product has an effect on conformity to final product requirements, The organization shall ensure that purchased product conforms to specified purchase requirements. The type and extent of control including the selection and evaluation applied to the supplier and the purchased product shall be dependent upon the effect of the purchased product on subsequent product realization or the final product.
To the extent applicable to the purchased product, The organization shall evaluate and select suppliers based on their ability to supply product in accordance with the organization‘s requirements. Criteria for selection, evaluation and re-evaluation shall be established. Records of the results of evaluations and any necessary actions arising from the evaluation shall be maintained (see 4.2.4).
a) evaluate and select suppliers based on their ability to supply product in accordance with the organization‘s requirements
b) establish criteria for selection, evaluation and re-evaluation
c) maintain records of the results of evaluations and any necessary actions arising from the evaluation (see 4.2.1 e).

7.4.2 Purchasing information

Purchasing information shall describe the product to be purchased, including where appropriate
a) requirements for approval of product, procedures, processes and equipment,
b) requirements for qualification of personnel, and
c) quality management system requirements.
The organization shall ensure the adequacy of specified purchase requirements prior to their communication to the supplier.

7.4.3 Verification of purchased product

The organization shall establish and implement the inspection or other activities necessary for ensuring that purchased product meets specified purchase requirements.
Where the organization or its customer intends to perform verification at the supplier‘s premises, the organization shall state the intended verification arrangements and method of product release in the purchasing information.
 

Peter Fraser

Trusted Information Resource
#48
The clauses cover some of the same ground but they are not the same in any way. Taking a simple example:

7.4.1 says the organization designs its systems to ensure the product it buys in meets its needs. That includes suplplier selection, purchasing processes and verification of the product (from 7.4.3). If the organization decides in 7.4.1 that it only buys from registered firms, only buys against a specification and monitors in house rejects then it could decide (in 7.4.3) that there is no need for incoming inspection.

Pretty much all the clauses are there for a purpose. We could all argue about the way the standard is put together (have a look at other threads for examples of how some Covers dislike the existing structure - and others defend it)
Paul

Some might argue that "shall establish and implement the inspection ... activities necessary..." (7.4.3) implies that there is a need for such activities. "Any necessary actions" is commonly used elsewhere, which gives the user some discretion.
 

Peter Fraser

Trusted Information Resource
#49
The WD2 of ISO9001:2009 states:
7.4.2 Purchasing information

Purchasing information shall describe the product to be purchased, including where appropriate
...
c) quality management system requirements.
Anyone prepared to say what this means? Is it something to do with the QS of the supplier, or some (unspecified) requirement of the organisation's QS, or ...? Should it not be more specific?
 

Sidney Vianna

Post Responsibly
Staff member
Admin
#50
Anyone prepared to say what this means? Is it something to do with the QS of the supplier, or some (unspecified) requirement of the organisation's QS, or ...? Should it not be more specific?
This requirement has been there for a long time. Some regulatory issues might force quality system requirements. Example several of the CE-Mark related European Directives.
Another example, a supplier outsourcing a heat treat process to require the supplier to be NADCAP accredited.
Another example yet, a purchaser of calibration services might require their lab to be ISO 17025 compliant.
 
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