The more ISO 9000:2000 registered companies the better?

Is the number of companies registered influencing positive effect of standard use?

  • No, they are not connected

    Votes: 3 37.5%
  • Yes, the more companies registered the stronger is positive effect for one company.

    Votes: 1 12.5%
  • Yes, the more companies registered the weaker is positive effect for one company.

    Votes: 4 50.0%

  • Total voters
    8
A

Anton Ovsianko

#1
The more registered companies the better?

Dear all,

'Lenin planned to build kommunism in one separate country'. Cruel and failing experiment...

I wonder if it is possible to develop an efficient and effective quality assurance system (say... complying to ISO 9001:2000) within one separate company? (while it's suppliers, customers etc. do not bother to do the same)

Are there interrelations between the number (rate) of registered companies in an industry and the total positive (negative) effect of ISO 9001 use? (please, vote in the poll)

The same might go for any other business standards mentioned in these forums.

Yours

Anton
 
Elsmar Forum Sponsor
A

Anton Ovsianko

#2
Hey Jim,

You want to say that registration is not at all corresponding with the effictiveness or efficiency of the QAS? Are really so sceptic about that?
:bonk: ;)

regards,

Anton
 
A

Anton Ovsianko

#3
Nice comments, putting my feet to the ground again.

However, we can look at the problem at a bit different angle )that is actually what I meant posting this.

Whether an organization improves its quality being registered or before registration is a question of a registrar conscience.
At the same time i hold that any organization seeks some benefits taking a decision to get registered (or simply developing a QAS). These benefits may originate from better quality, or from better sales or margin through complying the 'bureaucratic requirements' of clients. It would make a difference from the point of view of quality management and no difference from the point of view of marketing and strategy.
Speaking about positivew effect I meant the latter point of view - the effect for business in general calculated as surplus profit (or loss). Is it somehow dependent on the level of penetration of QA ideas or registrations in the industry? From your point of view...

regards,

Anton
 
M

M Greenaway

#4
Hi Anton

I guess the simple answer would be yes, if your competitors are also operating an effective QMS then theoretically the impact of improving your own will be less than if they had no QMS.

Note I am not talking about ISO9001 certification, but an effective QMS (hopefully go hand in hand, but not necessarily so).

If customers truly place orders with companies that provide quality products/services then the more companies that offer similar levels of quality product/service the less the QMS makes a difference, it becomes almost necessary for shear survival.
 
C

Craig H.

#5
Anton:

I guess I have a different, more cynical, view. As the proliferation of certificates increases, registration becomes more like a commodity. As this occurs, the market does not reward a company for being certified.

At the same time, the price-driven emphasis regains strength, pretty much putting us back where we started. I wish that at least we could say that the lowest total-cost emphasis returns, but IMHO usually that is not the truth.

If increased certification within a vertical industrial sector is due to companies just wanting a certificate to hang, little will improve. If, however, the companies are working toward real improvement, things will, of course, improve.

Craig
 
A

Aaron Lupo

#6
Jim Wade said:

Yep.

I guess that's why BSI now offer ISO 9004 certificates.

rgds Jim
Is that so? I didn't think 9004 was auditable how can the offer certificates and what accreditation body is allowing this?
 
M

M Greenaway

#7
ISO

These 'certificates' to ISO9004 will not be accredited certificates, or a certificate claiming 'compliance'. They are a document for your wall that kinda says that BSi have assessed your company against ISO9004 for business excellence (or words to that effect). There will be no UKAS logo's anywhere - I believe.
 
E

energy

#8
Weaker

I'm only one of two that say weaker. Craig seems to share that view. The more companies that are registered, just waters down the significance of being certified. Particularly, when they still ship junk. I've handled CAR's for at least three suppliers that proudly displayed their ISO badge on all their documentation. It's just the fad of the times. They responded no quicker than those that didn't have the badge and I never saw any attempts at "Proactive" Customer Satisfaction. The common remark that I heard from Shipping & Receiving and the Managers waiting for the ISO Company's product, was "Another example of ISO?". Probably why we failed to get all the personnel on board. They saw no measurable improvement. Nothing they could see, touch or feel. Kind of like religion. You have to believe!:rolleyes: :smokin:
 
Last edited by a moderator:
S
#9
Anton,
I voted no. Reason being that no program, quality or otherwise will work when dictated by someone else. Your opening statement provides a base for this reasoniong.
 
#10
The main problem I see is that many companies REQUIRE their suppliers to become registered. This makes places the focus on the "flag", not on the benefits. So, the minimum effort to maintain the the registration is all the companies care about.

If ISO/QS/TS/Whatever were strictly voluntary, and every company seeking registration did so for the benefits of an effective QMS, then the more companies registered, the better. However, we live in a real world. There are significant numbers of organizations that achieve registration under false motives/pretenses. The result is the more companies that are registered, the less effect registration has.

In my perfect world, two significant changes would be enacted. First, registration would be absolutely voluntary. Second, registered companies would be prohibited from telling anyone they achieved registration. This way we would be assured, organizations become registered for the right reasons.

edited for spelling -db
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Thread starter Similar threads Forum Replies Date
N Technical File Reviewer has requested more testing to ISO 10993 Other Medical Device Related Standards 10
Sidney Vianna IAF Ruling - No more ISO 9001:2008 nor ISO 14001:2004 audits after 2018-03-15 ISO 9000, ISO 9001, and ISO 9004 Quality Management Systems Standards 6
T ISO 14001:2015 cover more than 1 company or business unit? ISO 14001:2015 Specific Discussions 13
M ISO/TS 16949:2009 Follow-up Audit Visits to create more Revenue IATF 16949 - Automotive Quality Systems Standard 12
P Can anyone give any declaration or something stating that ISO 13488 is no more ISO 13485:2016 - Medical Device Quality Management Systems 2
Q ISO 9001 vs. TL9000 - Which standard is more applicable? ISO 9000, ISO 9001, and ISO 9004 Quality Management Systems Standards 4
M Adding More Procedures than are Required by ISO 9001 ISO 9000, ISO 9001, and ISO 9004 Quality Management Systems Standards 8
C Ever come across an ISO 9001 certificate with more than 3 years validity period? ISO 9000, ISO 9001, and ISO 9004 Quality Management Systems Standards 35
Hershal For accredited labs that expect more - Certification of ISO/IEC 17025 assessors ISO 17025 related Discussions 4
C Documentation required for AS9003 registration - More than for ISO 9001? Various Other Specifications, Standards, and related Requirements 3
A Why is that ISO 9001 QMS lasts no more than 18 months in an organization? ISO 9000, ISO 9001, and ISO 9004 Quality Management Systems Standards 10
A The new ISO 9001 QMS create more management criticism ISO 9000, ISO 9001, and ISO 9004 Quality Management Systems Standards 18
B ISO 9001:1994 more user friendly than ISO 9001:2000? ISO 9000, ISO 9001, and ISO 9004 Quality Management Systems Standards 15
D Question about ISO 9001 Registrar Audit Checklist - No more checklists? General Auditing Discussions 9
C ISO 9001 Registration Audit - How can I make this a more enriching experience? ISO 9000, ISO 9001, and ISO 9004 Quality Management Systems Standards 13
C TS 16949 vs. ISO 9001 - Differences - TS 16949 has more requirements ISO 9000, ISO 9001, and ISO 9004 Quality Management Systems Standards 4
CarolX Is ISO 9001 More of a Hindrance than Help? ISO 9000, ISO 9001, and ISO 9004 Quality Management Systems Standards 6
L More ISO 14001 and ISO 9001 Integration Questions Miscellaneous Environmental Standards and EMS Related Discussions 11
J Is ISO 9001 more focused on production and TQM more on Management? ISO 9000, ISO 9001, and ISO 9004 Quality Management Systems Standards 6
R Guide 25 vs. ISO17025 - Substantially more requirements in ISO 17025 ISO 17025 related Discussions 12
R More on the approval of ISO 9001 : 2000 ISO 9000, ISO 9001, and ISO 9004 Quality Management Systems Standards 7
K Gage R&R with more than 3 appraisers Gage R&R (GR&R) and MSA (Measurement Systems Analysis) 2
K More than one importer for the same device EU Medical Device Regulations 3
S Two or more predicates suitable? 510K submission US Food and Drug Administration (FDA) 5
E Received a Major finding during IATF Surveillance audit for loss of BIQS Level 3 (more than 6 SPPS in 6 months)...how should we address SYSTEMIC CA? IATF 16949 - Automotive Quality Systems Standard 11
L Which one is more important for FMEA CC or SC, FMEA and Control Plans 6
M UDI-PI on a package that contains more devices EU Medical Device Regulations 3
M Informational Update – MDR and IVDR implementing measures rolling plan – 2 more NBs designated under the new regulations Medical Device and FDA Regulations and Standards News 0
B More than one Risk Report per Medical Device ISO 14971 - Medical Device Risk Management 3
Ed Panek Can a single supplier fit two or more categories for risk? ISO 13485:2016 - Medical Device Quality Management Systems 2
Sidney Vianna More allegations of unethical behavior in the Aerospace Sector AS9100, IAQG, NADCAP and Aerospace related Standards and Requirements 1
M Informational FDA Panel: Too early to pull textured breast implants over cancer risk, need more data Medical Device and FDA Regulations and Standards News 0
M BSI – Want to know more about the Notified Body? Registrars and Notified Bodies 0
Marc Renewables, led by wind, provided more power than coal in Germany in 2018 Sustainability, Green Initiatives and Ecology 2
Marc Forums - "Watching" One or More Forums for New Threads and New Posts Elsmar Xenforo Forum Software Instructions and Help 1
A MSA When an Instrument Measures More than One Parameter Gage R&R (GR&R) and MSA (Measurement Systems Analysis) 7
M Vernier Calibrations & more General Measurement Device and Calibration Topics 5
bobdoering Contingency Plans Likely to be Scrutinized More Now IATF 16949 - Automotive Quality Systems Standard 9
Q How can you justify using a more accurate Pin Gage class? General Measurement Device and Calibration Topics 16
JoshuaFroud Addressing wet ink signatures when more than one site is involved 21 CFR Part 820 - US FDA Quality System Regulations (QSR) 8
G More on IATF 8.5.6.1.1 - Temporary Change of Process Controls IATF 16949 - Automotive Quality Systems Standard 4
P Tool for Measuring - Do I have to do more than one Gage R&R for the PPAP? Gage R&R (GR&R) and MSA (Measurement Systems Analysis) 2
L How to get more Auditing Experience Career and Occupation Discussions 11
C Squeeze in one more - Rate of failure Statistical Analysis Tools, Techniques and SPC 6
M Is it possible to have more than one authorized representative in Saudi Arabia? Other Medical Device Regulations World-Wide 6
somashekar People are more than just ?resources? Book, Video, Blog and Web Site Reviews and Recommendations 1
ncwalker More Central Limit Theorem Questions Six Sigma 4
M More than canned audit check-sheets? Auditing the Engineering Department Process Audits and Layered Process Audits 5
Marc Explore - Movies, audios and more! An Online Library Coffee Break and Water Cooler Discussions 2
B Share ideas to make Management Review more interesting Management Review Meetings and related Processes 4

Similar threads

Top Bottom