The Next version of ISO 9001 (2008 version) - Any news?

[Stijloor]

Re: The Next version of ISO 9001 - Any news?

It makes really no sense to attend any training about the “new” standard!
To do this “new” standard, TC 176 should have made the standard in 2005/6 as it was supposed to be done!

Revenue generator.....for some...

Stijloor.

 

[Helmut Jilling]

Re: The Next version of ISO 9001 - Any news?

My concern is that people who are not aware of the absence of change will believe that they need this training and will buy a copy of the new standard. They will be wasting their money.

I would expectmy certified clients to buy at least one copy of the new standard, and read it, and absorb the clarifications. I think you are overdoing it on that.

However, training is not required if they already have a good system. However, we trainers will continue to provide training on ISO. Now we will train to the new version is the only difference.

 

[tyker]

Re: The Next version of ISO 9001 - Any news?

I would expectmy certified clients to buy at least one copy of the new standard, and read it, and absorb the clarifications. I think you are overdoing it on that.

However, training is not required if they already have a good system. However, we trainers will continue to provide training on ISO. Now we will train to the new version is the only difference.

Overdoing it! Me?

I'm sure most organizations working to ISO 9001 will buy a copy of the new standard.

However, I think I have enough information about the changes to justify not investing my employer's cash in a copy although I'm expecting a constructive discussion with our external auditor on the finer points of the document control requirements and how they apply to this standard.

Clearly, ISO 9001 training courses need to be updted to reference the new standard. It's those created to teach only the changes I have difficulty with.

 

[Helmut Jilling]

Re: The Next version of ISO 9001 - Any news?

Overdoing it! Me?

I'm sure most organizations working to ISO 9001 will buy a copy of the new standard.

However, I think I have enough information about the changes to justify not investing my employer's cash in a copy although I'm expecting a constructive discussion with our external auditor on the finer points of the document control requirements and how they apply to this standard.

Clearly, ISO 9001 training courses need to be updted to reference the new standard. It's those created to teach only the changes I have difficulty with.

I think it is reasonable to expect a company which is maintaining ISO certification to buy one copy of the new standard, even if the changes are minimal. I realize the economy is tough right now, but $40 is not going to chnage your world...?

 

[Jim Wynne]

Re: The Next version of ISO 9001 - Any news?

The question isn't whether it's reasonable to expect companies to buy a copy of the amended standard, but whether it was reasonable to force the issue by publishing a new edition that is, in practical terms, no different from its predecessor.

 

[tyker]

Re: The Next version of ISO 9001 - Any news?

I think it is reasonable to expect a company which is maintaining ISO certification to buy one copy of the new standard, even if the changes are minimal. I realize the economy is tough right now, but $40 is not going to chnage your world...?

In this case I'm going to be unreasonable.

Anyway, BSI charges £70 (US$110) for the present version and I doubt if the price will go down.

 

[Sidney Vianna]

Re: The Next version of ISO 9001 - Any news?

However, I think I have enough information about the changes to justify not investing my employer's cash in a copy although I'm expecting a constructive discussion with our external auditor on the finer points of the document control requirements and how they apply to this standard.

constructive discussion?

Indeed it would be interesting to hear from the registered organizations that decide not to purchase a copy of the 4th edition of ISO 9001, based on ISO's own declaration that the amended document brings no new requirements. And from external auditors who might decide to write them up, based on control of external origin documents.

A brave soul could approach the TC 176 and ask for an official interpretation on this. The question to be asked (so it can be answered in a yes/no fashion) is:
Are currently certified organizations (to ISO 9001:2000) required to obtain a copy of ISO 9001:2008 in order to transition it's certificate?

Background for the question. ISO announced that the amended document brings no new requirements. My organization sees no need to purchase the new document.

 

[Colin]

Re: The Next version of ISO 9001 - Any news?

My concern is that people who are not aware of the absence of change will believe that they need this training and will buy a copy of the new standard. They will be wasting their money.

My version of the course would be:
14:00 Hello, give me £90, have a cup of coffee.
14:05 The new standard was created to make money for the standards bodies and this course was designed to allow us to jump on the bandwagon.
14:07 There are no changes in requirements at all and you need do nothing.
14:08 The certification bodies will issue you a shiny new certificate after their next visit.
14:09 If you didn't understand ISO 9001:2000 you won't understand the 2008 version either. Would you like to buy a better course?
14:10 Goodbye

OK, I know I'm a cynic, but this standard and all the hangers on are perpetrating a con trick against industry and at a time when the spare cash just isn't there to waste.

If an organization hasn't grasped the principles laid down in the 2000 edition, thats a different issue and courses like this aren't the solution.

I take your point, any training course should make it very clear that there are no new requirements, just amendments to the existing ones and you are right, if they didn't get it first time around, a half day course won't solve the problem.

As I understand it though, people are actually asking for these update courses so any training organisation is going to yes aren't they?

 

[JaneB]

Re: The Next version of ISO 9001 - Any news?

As I understand it though, people are actually asking for these update courses so any training organisation is going to yes aren't they?

I agree, and think you're being a bit overly cynical, Tyker. I don't see a problem with an organisation offering a course - they've clearly laid out the contents. A couple of my contacts in CBs (credible people) said they've had demand for such courses. I'd prefer to credit other people with the same intelligence and sense as we claim for ourselves. ie, let them decide whether they need it and whether it has value for them.

I don't think in this case a course (let alone a whole day) is necessary - but that's me. And yes, I'd give that advice to my clients. But I won't judge what other people need nor castigate an organisation for offering a course in a free market.

 

[JaneB]

Re: Oz dollar = cheap

If you're worried about the cost, buy an electronic copy in Australia (after all, it's an International Standard).

Our $ makes that a very cheap alternative against the USD, Euro etc.