The Optimal IA Schedule - How should the Internal Audit Schedule be set up?

#11
Hi all,

Here's an area I continually struggle with...how should the audit schedule be set up??? Everytime I think I'm on the right track I either second-guess myself, prove myself wrong, or have the registrar give suggestions. I just cant seem to get it right.

Attached is my current internal audit schedule and would like some comments, criticism, etc...on it. What's missing? What dont I need? Would it be effective or compliant? Anything...
WooHoo - my favorite topic...............:lmao:

Interestingly enough, you aren't required to have anything like a 'calendar' of audits. You have to establish an audit program, the frequency of audits and define scope and criteria. I'd suggest reading ISO 9004, which provides excellent guidance on scheduling audits, which is more often than not completely overlooked.

To answer your post, what would the optimal schedule look like? Well, some aspects are 'fixed'. Like the 'once over' audit looking into the items the external audits focus on - it's a bit like cleaning house before you have visitors. You don't do everything, just make sure it's all tidy, dusted etc.

Over and beyond the house keeping, IMHO you don't/can't put a meaningful 12 month calendar together, as Sidney is alluding to. The optimal schedule is based on some frequency, let's say (for example only) 1/month. You can then choose your 'focus' based on what's going on at that moment -i.e the 'status and importance'. That make the audit a 'pull' rather than 'push' and management will get more benefit from hearing about the system if the results relate to contemporary issues.

My clients do it this way since 2000 and never had any issues with registrars regarding covering all the processes once a year etc..........:agree1:
 
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pinpin - 2009

#12
WooHoo - my favorite topic...............:lmao:

Interestingly enough, you aren't required to have anything like a 'calendar' of audits. You have to establish an audit program, the frequency of audits and define scope and criteria. I'd suggest reading ISO 9004, which provides excellent guidance on scheduling audits, which is more often than not completely overlooked.

To answer your post, what would the optimal schedule look like? Well, some aspects are 'fixed'. Like the 'once over' audit looking into the items the external audits focus on - it's a bit like cleaning house before you have visitors. You don't do everything, just make sure it's all tidy, dusted etc.

Over and beyond the house keeping, IMHO you don't/can't put a meaningful 12 month calendar together, as Sidney is alluding to. The optimal schedule is based on some frequency, let's say (for example only) 1/month. You can then choose your 'focus' based on what's going on at that moment -i.e the 'status and importance'. That make the audit a 'pull' rather than 'push' and management will get more benefit from hearing about the system if the results relate to contemporary issues.

My clients do it this way since 2000 and never had any issues with registrars regarding covering all the processes once a year etc..........:agree1:
Dear Andy,

TS standard clause 8.2.2.4 requires internal audits to cover all quality processes, activities and shifts, and shall be scheduled according to an annual plan. If this does not mean to have a 12 months calendar plan, base on what you said, am I interpret correctly is just to say in the annual plan that all processes, activities and shifts shall be audited at least once and base on status and importance, and this will meet TS requirement? Please teach me....:thanks::thanx:
 
#13
Firstly, there are certain key points in an audit plan which are somewhat fixed, for example your registrar visits. These should be shown on a calendar and you could choose to audit those requirements that the CB auditor will look at, plus any open/closed CARs.

Further, there may be operations which are tied to a schedule, let's say vacations - where a proportion of the workforce goes on holiday and you use contract labor for that period. That would be another great opportunity for a scheduled audit, to see what effect those 'new folks' ahve on the process, training etc.

After that, I have (in the past) planned to do audits monthly, but only choose the scope and criteria based on the issues at that moment - let's say 30 days before), to be flexible. I rarely use a crystal ball to see what needs auditing in 6 - 9, or even 12 month's time.....And it's never been an issue with any CB auditor!

Does this help you?
 

Stijloor

Staff member
Super Moderator
#14
Dear Andy,

TS standard clause 8.2.2.4 requires internal audits to cover all quality processes, activities and shifts, and shall be scheduled according to an annual plan. If this does not mean to have a 12 months calendar plan, base on what you said, am I interpret correctly is just to say in the annual plan that all processes, activities and shifts shall be audited at least once and base on status and importance, and this will meet TS requirement? Please teach me....:thanks::thanx:
pipin,

From ISO/TS 16949:2002;

8.2.2.4 Internal audit plans
Internal audits shall cover all quality management related processes, activities and shifts, and shall be scheduled according to an annual plan.
When internal/external nonconformities or customer complaints occur, the audit frequency shall be appropriately increased.
NOTE Specific checklists should be used for each audit.


This makes it clear.

Stijloor.
 
#15
pipin,

From ISO/TS 16949:2002;

8.2.2.4 Internal audit plans
Internal audits shall cover all quality management related processes, activities and shifts, and shall be scheduled according to an annual plan.
When internal/external nonconformities or customer complaints occur, the audit frequency shall be appropriately increased.
NOTE Specific checklists should be used for each audit.


This makes it clear.

Stijloor.
Does it make it clear? Is an 'annual plan' a complete 12 months of predetermined audits?

Or could it be a plan to do internal audits, the frequency of 1/month (or week, or whatever) and then fill in the details as you require, based on status and importance? Some of the reasosn you want to do audits aren't predictable, so flexibility is important, as guided in ISO 9004......
 

Stijloor

Staff member
Super Moderator
#16
Does it make it clear? Is an 'annual plan' a complete 12 months of predetermined audits?
That's what the standard requires. But it does not have to be all that difficult. With my Clients, we establish an annual audit plan so that all Process Owners know way in advance what process is going to be audited, by whom and when. This schedule is based on a "rolling" forecast. So when the January 2008 audits have been completed, we add January 2009 to the schedule taking in consideration what we've learned. The schedule permits for (approved) changes when internal and external nonconformities occur, management review results, customer issues, etc. We usually set up a simple spreadsheet-type schedule that is discussed during management reviews. Necessary changes are made accordingly. So everyone is kept in the loop, Process Owners can plan accordingly and we meet the intent of ISO/TS 16949:2002.

It's that simple.

Stijloor.
 
#17
In my experience to do waht you advocate can end up with so many changes that eventually, the management ask "When are you going to make up your mind?' of the audit manager! Don't forget that most organizations' management don't care much for audits anyway, so to give them a reason (constantly amending the schedule) to complain is not a good idea........

By using the latest 'hot buttons' to set the focus of the audit is a way to address the issues they're interested in, without adding bureaucracy for the audit manager.
 

Stijloor

Staff member
Super Moderator
#18
In my experience to do waht you advocate can end up with so many changes that eventually, the management ask "When are you going to make up your mind?' of the audit manager!
This has not been my experience. It has worked fairly well.
 
C

CliffK

#19
Hi all,

Here's an area I continually struggle with...how should the audit schedule be set up??? Everytime I think I'm on the right track I either second-guess myself, prove myself wrong, or have the registrar give suggestions. I just cant seem to get it right.
Why are you doing internal audits? What is the purpose in your mind? What is the purpose in the mind of the organization?

I ask this because I think it will be easier to build an audit plan you can live with if you can clearly articulate the purpose of auditing as you see it.

I promise I won't respond to your reply with criticism or a "correct" answer.
 
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