The Optimal IA Schedule - How should the Internal Audit Schedule be set up?

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Helmut Jilling

Auditor / Consultant
#22
Does it make it clear? Is an 'annual plan' a complete 12 months of predetermined audits?

Or could it be a plan to do internal audits, the frequency of 1/month (or week, or whatever) and then fill in the details as you require, based on status and importance? Some of the reasosn you want to do audits aren't predictable, so flexibility is important, as guided in ISO 9004......

As an auditor, I would allow some flexibility, as long as the approach gets the job done. I recommend scheduling based on a wedding cake:

1. at the base, 1 time for each process, per year.
2. For important processes, plug in a second time.
3. For problem processes, plug in extra audits, appropriate to the issues identified.

The base layer, can stay the same, year after year.
 
#23
Gotta be nice Andy, gotta be nice....:yes: Does wonders....
Nothing to do with being nice or not, Jan.

All I'm saying is my clients (were challenging since they) wouldn't accept doing audits to a predefined schedule if they we going to have it change on them or it wouldn't address the issues prevailing in the business. And saying "ISO-Says-So" wouldn't cut it with them, they wanted to use audit to move past simple compliance and diagnose what was going on with their processes etc.

So, I turned to ISO 9004 which states, in part - ".....audit scheduling should be flexible to allow for inputs from interested parties......."
 
C

CliffK

#24
All I'm saying is my clients <snip, but without damage to meaning, i think; correct me if I'm wrong, Andy>
wanted to use audit to move past simple compliance and diagnose what was going on with their processes etc.
If I may be so bold, I think this is the key to the difference of opinion.

Not to say that any set of clients have less mature quality systems or are somehow missing the boat on innovation. Only to observe that a lot of organizations with mature quality systems have grown impatient with internal auditing. Compliant audit results almost become a given, as the organization learns what the auditor wants to see/hear, and feeds it to him. In these situations it can take a lot of ingenuity to find out what's really going on.

A lot of us are searching for better ways to do it, and driven as we are by clients needs/desires, we come up with different solutions.

That's my $.02, anyway.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
P

pinpin - 2009

#25
Firstly, there are certain key points in an audit plan which are somewhat fixed, for example your registrar visits. These should be shown on a calendar and you could choose to audit those requirements that the CB auditor will look at, plus any open/closed CARs.

Further, there may be operations which are tied to a schedule, let's say vacations - where a proportion of the workforce goes on holiday and you use contract labor for that period. That would be another great opportunity for a scheduled audit, to see what effect those 'new folks' ahve on the process, training etc.

After that, I have (in the past) planned to do audits monthly, but only choose the scope and criteria based on the issues at that moment - let's say 30 days before), to be flexible. I rarely use a crystal ball to see what needs auditing in 6 - 9, or even 12 month's time.....And it's never been an issue with any CB auditor!

Does this help you?
Dear Andy,

I am sorry that I am not very clear about it.

Do you mean you also have an annual 12 month calendar that initially only fill out with the CB auditor's audit shedule, then only fill out the process that you plan to audit in the following month (say start from Dec 2007, you plan for Jan 2008, then when it is jan 2008, you plan for Feb 2008...?)?

TS does not say within how long a period we must audit all the processes we identified in our company right? So in this case we can just use our common sense to plan for the following month or following 2-3 months base on status and importance of our current situation right? I like this!

But clause 8.2.2.4 wants all....be scheduled according to an annual plan. Does that mean we have to list all the processes, activities and shifts first so that it is accepted by the auditor that we "have" planned "all" of them? Your method of filling out 1 month beforehand as plan for the following months shall ensure you cover "all" the processes, activities and shifts by end of the year?

Please explain further, sorry....:thanks::thanx:
 
#26
Pinpin:
You have described it perfectly, thank you! I believe that if you do what you describe, using the 'process approach' you can easily show a CB auditor that you have a plan and, more importantly, your auditors will go where managment get benefit from the report......

Please try it and share what you find out

Thanks!
 
P

pinpin - 2009

#27
Pinpin:
You have described it perfectly, thank you! I believe that if you do what you describe, using the 'process approach' you can easily show a CB auditor that you have a plan and, more importantly, your auditors will go where managment get benefit from the report......

Please try it and share what you find out

Thanks!
I like your method, it is very good !:thanks::thanx:
 
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