The right way to Report Internal Audit Results

Casana

Blueberry Nut
#1
So we had our external ISO 9001 audit last week, and our auditor had some MAJOR comments on how I run our internal audit programm - he spent over 2 hrs explaining how I was doing it all wrong. He was very nice about his comments but left me with a headache…

Then he proceeded to not even comment on this during the closing meeting, I assume b/c I did meet the requirements of the std after all.

His main comment was that my audit report was too complex - for each area audited, I listed on the report all relevant elements and commented on how these were met by the auditee. Of course the more relevant elements to the auditee had much more substance than the 'generic' elements that apply to all areas (ie for Purchasing I had lots more comemnts on 7.4 than on 4.2.3).
I listed in my report a summary of all the records I reviewed, as well as any concerns and corrective actions identified during the audit.

His view was that instead of this detailed report, that I just needed my handwritten notes as evidence, and my audit report should just consist of a summary paragraph or two of the findings - ie looked at xyz process, xyz process looks good (or not), corrective actions identified, etc.

What confuses me is that I've had other auditors praise how I run my audits, then this one just hammered me. Who's right?
 
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somashekar

Staff member
Super Moderator
#2
Re: Internal Audits - right way to do them?

So we had our external ISO 9001 audit last week, and our auditor had some MAJOR comments on how I run our internal audit programm - he spent over 2 hrs explaining how I was doing it all wrong. He was very nice about his comments but left me with a headache…

Then he proceeded to not even comment on this during the closing meeting, I assume b/c I did meet the requirements of the std after all.

His main comment was that my audit report was too complex - for each area audited, I listed on the report all relevant elements and commented on how these were met by the auditee. Of course the more relevant elements to the auditee had much more substance than the 'generic' elements that apply to all areas (ie for Purchasing I had lots more comemnts on 7.4 than on 4.2.3).
I listed in my report a summary of all the records I reviewed, as well as any concerns and corrective actions identified during the audit.

His view was that instead of this detailed report, that I just needed my handwritten notes as evidence, and my audit report should just consist of a summary paragraph or two of the findings - ie looked at xyz process, xyz process looks good (or not), corrective actions identified, etc.

What confuses me is that I've had other auditors praise how I run my audits, then this one just hammered me. Who's right?
His main comment was that my audit report was too complex
Too complex for him does not make you obligated to simplify to his liking as long as you have met the requirements of internal audit ... which you have.
If it is good for you, and purposeful in meeting the requirements of ISO9001 about internal audits, keep moving., and in his 2 hrs explaining, if you have got any positives, take them, else why bother.
 

qusys

Trusted Information Resource
#3
Re: Internal Audits - right way to do them?

So we had our external ISO 9001 audit last week, and our auditor had some MAJOR comments on how I run our internal audit programm - he spent over 2 hrs explaining how I was doing it all wrong. He was very nice about his comments but left me with a headache…

Then he proceeded to not even comment on this during the closing meeting, I assume b/c I did meet the requirements of the std after all.

His main comment was that my audit report was too complex - for each area audited, I listed on the report all relevant elements and commented on how these were met by the auditee. Of course the more relevant elements to the auditee had much more substance than the 'generic' elements that apply to all areas (ie for Purchasing I had lots more comemnts on 7.4 than on 4.2.3).
I listed in my report a summary of all the records I reviewed, as well as any concerns and corrective actions identified during the audit.

His view was that instead of this detailed report, that I just needed my handwritten notes as evidence, and my audit report should just consist of a summary paragraph or two of the findings - ie looked at xyz process, xyz process looks good (or not), corrective actions identified, etc.

What confuses me is that I've had other auditors praise how I run my audits, then this one just hammered me. Who's right?
They both , I think.
ISO 19011 gives guidelines about what an audit report should contain.
Probably internal audit report is more detailed in the overall comment with respect to an external one, because you would have historical memory of what you have seen also to gain advantage in successive internal audit. Probably to have only handy written notes could be reductive and you prefer to put them in electronic format.
I do not know your report, you could share one to show us, but probably the external auditor would have liked to see in it a more concise conclusions given that he lost himself, as you said, in the details of your report.
However it is up to you how to proceed but consider the effectiveness of the report also conducting internal check with management.:bigwave:
 
Last edited:

RoxaneB

Super Moderator
Super Moderator
#4
Re: Internal Audits - right way to do them?

Casana:

Your auditor may have been trying to provide some off-the-record opportunities for improvement or perhaps he crossed the line over into consulting. Either way, if he did not officially comment on it or provide an official finding on it, I wouldn't spend too much time worrying about it.

If your audit programme adds value to your organization (i.e., those who are to take actions from the audit results), great! No audit programme is perfect , however, and there is usually room for some improvement.

Perhaps he was trying to help. Perhaps he likes the sound of his own voice. Either way, is there any harm in considering what was said and maybe discussing it with management when reviewing the final report? Maybe they'll want to try a few of these unofficial suggestions...or maybe they'll just shrug it off and say they're happy with what is already in place.

If it's not documented in his final report, he didn't hammer you. He had his moment and how you decide to process his words is up to you. :)
 

Randy

Super Moderator
#5
Re: Internal Audits - right way to do them?

If it suits YOUR needs and meets requirements then do whatever makes YOU happy.

As for what an auditor likes, hopes, desires, wishes or wants....Those are not part of the equation and should never be.
 

Casana

Blueberry Nut
#6
Re: Internal Audits - right way to do them?

Yeah, I figured he just needed to hear himself speak too. :lol:

Thanks for the reminder to check ISO 19011! On that note, I'll also go searching on the cove for any suggestions on how to make audits more effective.
 

Sidney Vianna

Post Responsibly
Staff member
Admin
#7
Re: Internal Audits - right way to do them?

Perhaps he was trying to help.
Maybe. Perhaps, he is afraid of his audit report being compared against yours and someone comes to a realization that his reports lack substance, content, value.
Don't let this auditor set your bar as low as his. If your report is appreciated, keep on doing it.
 
#8
Re: The right way to do Internal Audits

I'm going to throw in with the auditor. I think the others have said nothing because you've been doing what they expect. This one may be on to something!

Simply put, telling the rest of management which clause numbers etc are part of the audit findings is not much use, frankly. They have no time for what ISO says! Now, the other CB auditors all live in that world! So, when you speak their language, why would they be concerned? I'm guessing you took an internal or Lead Auditor course and that's what they teach you - but that's not appropriate for internal audits, IMHO. Better to relate it to their process, performance, etc.

I too, like the 'quick and dirty' approach to audits. Notes made on paper, of your own observations, samples etc are far more effective than reams or hours spent in typing copious pages of report. You need to make it painless for yourself, management need the 'elevator pitch' in a report.

Despite what the wrongs and rights of the way the auditor did this, for a minute - ask yourself this: Do management understand what I'm telling them? Really, really?

As Roxane says, he didn't hammer you, it's just that he had a lot of different ideas about what you've been told - and what you've been led to believe by the others' silence - is a good way to audit. Actually, if I were the auditor, I'd probably say something similar!
 

Casana

Blueberry Nut
#9
Andy - I don't present the audit report to management, instead I bring a summary of the audit results to management review. The report is available online for anyone to review if they wish, but I don't expect anyone (especially management) to review the details.

If I'm not going to get in "trouble" for not listing the status of all the elements, I may lean towards simplifying the audit report. I dont' mind all the typing, but my audit team struggles with it and I'd probably get much quicker reports if I simplify things for them.

Food for thought, certainly! :yes:
 
#10
Andy - I don't present the audit report to management, instead I bring a summary of the audit results to management review. The report is available online for anyone to review if they wish, but I don't expect anyone (especially management) to review the details.

If I'm not going to get in "trouble" for not listing the status of all the elements, I may lean towards simplifying the audit report. I dont' mind all the typing, but my audit team struggles with it and I'd probably get much quicker reports if I simplify things for them.

Food for thought, certainly! :yes:
Management doesn't read the report you produce? What's the point of doing the audit and reporting your findings, then? Sorry if I missed something important here...
 
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