Thoughts and Opinions about the ASQ (American Society for Quality)

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Geoff Withnell

#3
I am NOT thrilled with ASQ Headquarters. That said, there are a lot of folks there that really are trying to do a good job of supporting the membership. I am particularly thinking of the staff in the certification area, that run the workshops that develope the exams. But a lot of the senior staff seem to think of ASQ as a business, rather than a professional society. Given the ban on "campaigning" in Society elections, I am stymied in trying to see how to fix this. I don't see much chance for a rival society.

Geoff Withnell
Senior Member, ASQ
 
R

rparcm08

#4
I've found the local sections to be very helpful in the areas of training and assistance when networking. I've also found ASQ headquarters to be more interested in being a profit center. It seems most communications from them tend to be buy this or get this certification. I've given up my membership years ago and do not regret that decision. (IMHO)
 

Steve Prevette

Deming Disciple
Staff member
Super Moderator
#5
ASQ is back at it again - attempting to advocate a quality methodology over all others. Once again, six sigma, I received this email from ASQ:


Lean Six Sigma has recently taken the spotlight as a potential means of reducing Federal expenditures. The current administration is studying the benefits of the method and now several presidential candidates have already pledged to use Lean Six Sigma, if elected, to eliminate federal government waste and reduce the deficit.

We’re asking the quality community to take this brief survey to gain feedback on how and where Lean Six Sigma might be used to reduce costs while pursuing the government’s missions and other legal obligations. The survey consists of 5 questions and should take no longer than a few minutes of your time; ASQ will compile the responses and share the results with ASQ members, the quality community, as well as with news media. Thank you for helping to raise the voice of quality

====================================

I have sent a note to the marketing folks saying I refuse to pay dues to an organization that is trying to influence my employer to follow a specific methodology which is contrary to what I have worked to achieve in the past 18 years of government contracting service.

I do not believe ASQ should meddle in US Government business.
 

Wes Bucey

Quite Involved in Discussions
#6
I like reading or watching "crime" stories, which rarely involve crimes of "passion." Almost always (a prime example being the Bruce Willis "Die Hard" films where the bad guys apparently start off as idealist terrorists, then turn out to be nothing more than crooks), the overriding mantra of the police or "good guys" is "FOLLOW THE MONEY!"

So, translating that philosophy to the ASQ top dog fascination with 6S and the other good idea corrupted by fast buck artists, "Lean," my advice is to look closely at who seems to be profiting from this apparent "blessing" by ASQ of 6S.

First, of course, are the big-salary dogs at ASQ. Are they earning any money aside from their salaries?

Second are the "consultants" like Mikel Harry who hold themselves out to be in possession of "the true path" like some religious hucksters of old (and modern) times. These are the guys I suspect of having a big stockpile of Kool Aid which they are trying to get us all to drink.

The poor schmucks in business and government organizations are bedazzled by "the Big Lie" and, just like their counterparts in the 60's, 70's, and 80's who believed the Big Lie current then - "you can't go wrong buying IBM," they live in perpetual fear of being found "unfit for office."

So combine the mid-level manager's fear with the soothsaying of the 6S priests and you get a perpetual propaganda machine which profits a few at the expense of the many. The poor rank and file member is caught in the switches. If he does NOT sign up for the new religion, he finds more and more doors closed to him.

What upsets me most are the rank and file members who continually "appease" the 6S hucksters in much the same way that Great Britain's Prime Minister Neville Chamberlain continually appeased Hitler and the Nazis. Back then, before the true horror of Hitler became common knowledge, a lot of folks went along with Chamberlain's appeasement policy. The truth, of course, was that Hitler was merely re-enacting the old story of the camel who started with his nose in the tent during a sandstorm and ended with complete control of the tent.

:mad::mad::mad:
Even I am losing my will to be Jeremiah, the Weeping Prophet.:frust::frust::frust:
 
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Marc

Hunkered Down for the Duration
Staff member
Admin
#7
A quick interjection on my part - Ground Rules for this thread: I expect anyone who posts in this thread to do so in a professional, non-confrontational way. Please use the Report button on any post which is not professional or is confrontational (i.e.: No Pissing Matches).
 
G

Geoff Withnell

#8
ASQ is back at it again - attempting to advocate a quality methodology over all others. Once again, six sigma, I received this email from ASQ:


Lean Six Sigma has recently taken the spotlight as a potential means of reducing Federal expenditures. The current administration is studying the benefits of the method and now several presidential candidates have already pledged to use Lean Six Sigma, if elected, to eliminate federal government waste and reduce the deficit.

We’re asking the quality community to take this brief survey to gain feedback on how and where Lean Six Sigma might be used to reduce costs while pursuing the government’s missions and other legal obligations. The survey consists of 5 questions and should take no longer than a few minutes of your time; ASQ will compile the responses and share the results with ASQ members, the quality community, as well as with news media. Thank you for helping to raise the voice of quality

====================================

I have sent a note to the marketing folks saying I refuse to pay dues to an organization that is trying to influence my employer to follow a specific methodology which is contrary to what I have worked to achieve in the past 18 years of government contracting service.

I do not believe ASQ should meddle in US Government business.
Steve and I disagree (passionately:)) on LSS. However, I agree with him here. ASQ should be "pushing" numerical, logical, data driven thinking to the government, not any one particular methodology, especially not one with the overhead and startup learning curve of six sigma. How about plain vanilla quality engineering, or doesn't that provide enough opportunity for consultants?

Geoff Withnell
 

Jim Wynne

Staff member
Admin
#9
Steve and I disagree (passionately:)) on LSS. However, I agree with him here. ASQ should be "pushing" numerical, logical, data driven thinking to the government, not any one particular methodology, especially not one with the overhead and startup learning curve of six sigma. How about plain vanilla quality engineering, or doesn't that provide enough opportunity for consultants?

Geoff Withnell
The suggestion that "plain vanilla quality engineering" has no significant "startup learning curve" is amazing to me. One of the biggest problems OEMs have created in dealing with suppliers is the assumption that understanding of statistical analysis and improvement methods in is common knowledge, easily obtained. All the proliferation of SS has done is add an unnecessary layer of complication to a discipline where there are already far too few people who know what they're doing.

What we have now is a lot of people plugging numbers into Minitab and checking the results against a chart without having any idea what's going on behind the curtain. Cpk >1.67? Great! Don't worry whether the numbers come from a stable process or whether the dataset is too small and poorly sampled to have any actual meaning--it's 1.67!!

DMAIC is an unnecessary complication of PDCA; SIPOC is an unnecessary complication of IPO; DPMO is an unnecessary complication of simple ratios and comparisons; Six Sigma is unnecessary complication of everything. It goes on and on until you have ignoramuses with imaginary colorful belts deployed across the company whose job it is to fill in forms, check numbers against charts and tables of dubious provenance and confuse and complicate things in general.

If you want people to understand how to understand variation, there's a STEEP learning curve and it can't be avoided. What's being referred to as "plain vanilla quality engineering" is hard work and requires an investment in intellectual capital that few companies are willing to make. What American management wants in general is to be able to go to heaven without having to die first, and Six Sigma is just the ticket.
 

Steve Prevette

Deming Disciple
Staff member
Super Moderator
#10
I've traded emails with Paul Borawski (head of the staff at ASQ) and he has acknowledged my concern, and stated "I hear your point on the topic of balance – lean and six sigma are just a two tools available to knowledgeable quality professionals and ASQ should endeavor to include balance in our perspective. I’ve provided instruction (as a reminder) on this point to the people compiling and communicating the survey."

So looks like a good example of two-way communications. We shall see how this campaign with the government evolves.
 
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