Tip of the hat

[Don Wood - 2011]

I just wanted to make a quick comment. I noticed that I've been hanging out around here for about a year now. Those of you that remember me may have noticed I've been pretty quiet lately. It's not because I haven't had anything to say, it's because I haven't NEEDED to say much. The quality of information being shared here is vastly improved over what I saw when I first came here. Y'all are doing a great job, and you've helped a bunch of people. I've had the pleasure of meeting a few forum participants and lurkers in my classes, and I hope I have the pleasure of meeting more. Keep up the good work, folks!

DW
That guy that certifies TS2 auditors

 

[howste]

Hi Don - I'm hoping to see you in a class soon...

 

[Marc]

TS Auditor Course Failure Rate

I just wanted to make a quick comment. I noticed that I've been hanging out around here for about a year now. Those of you that remember me may have noticed I've been pretty quiet lately. It's not because I haven't had anything to say, it's because I haven't NEEDED to say much. The quality of information being shared here is vastly improved over what I saw when I first came here. Y'all are doing a great job, and you've helped a bunch of people. I've had the pleasure of meeting a few forum participants and lurkers in my classes, and I hope I have the pleasure of meeting more. Keep up the good work, folks!

Any input you have will be appreciated! I just now noticed you do TS auditor cert classes.

I do have a question. Is it true that approximately 70% of course attendees fail the first class?

 

[Don Wood - 2011]

Sadly, I can't answer that question for two reasons:
1. I don't know what the failure rate is
2. Even if I did, the rules I must live by wouldn't allow me to answer.

The failure rate is not shared with the instructors. They (IAOB and Plexus) don't want us to know the failure rate (or pass rate) in order to help keep us as objective as possible. Kind of strange, but that's the way it is!

Sorry! I'm kind of dying to know myself!
DW

 

[Wes Bucey]

Sadly, I can't answer that question for two reasons:
1. I don't know what the failure rate is
2. Even if I did, the rules I must live by wouldn't allow me to answer.

The failure rate is not shared with the instructors. They (IAOB and Plexus) don't want us to know the failure rate (or pass rate) in order to help keep us as objective as possible. Kind of strange, but that's the way it is!

Sorry! I'm kind of dying to know myself!
DW

Whatever happened to evaluating the course content and style?
It seems to me to be completely alien to Quality principles to hide any method of establishing a benchmark for continuous [continual?] improvement.

How do the students determine [if they fail] whether they [their ability, their study techniques] were the reason for failing or whether the content, context, and method of the course were adequate to prepare them for the exam?

Is it any wonder many consider the Quality profession to be SNAFU?

No personal aspersions here, just plain

 

[Aaron Lupo]

Re: TS Auditor Course Failure Rate

I do have a question. Is it true that approximately 70% of course attendees fail the first class?

That sounds about right, I had heard as high as 75%

 

[Mike Smith]

I am scheduled to attend this class in March as part of the CSR`s for Ford. What happens if you fail the class and why are people having so much trouble? Anything in particular?

 

[Marc]

Failure rate

I'm kind of dying to know myself!

It's between 60 and 70% according to those I've spoken with who took the course and kept in touch with their classmates.

That sounds about right, I had heard as high as 75%

So have I.

 

[Marc]

Evaluating Course Content

Whatever happened to evaluating the course content and style?
It seems to me to be completely alien to Quality principles to hide any method of establishing a benchmark for continuous [continual?] improvement.

How do the students determine [if they fail] whether they [their ability, their study techniques] were the reason for failing or whether the content, context, and method of the course were adequate to prepare them for the exam?:

The ASQ has long used this in their 'certification' schemes. You pass or fail, but don't get to know what you missed and such. After college I was shocked. I wanted those papers back so I knew where I failed and could focus on that area, for example. I took the CQE exam many moons ago and couldn't believe the secrecy and pettiness. In college part of the process was to study tests from the past, as well, to help understand the professor's style. We were taught that if you knew the material, the test content shouldn't matter. The only professors who tried to keep tests from leaving the class room were those lazy ones who used the same group of tests alturnating year to year.

I also felt the CQE test was poorly designed with too many 'questions' which had quite arbitrary 'answers'.

 

[Sam]

I am scheduled to attend this class in March as part of the CSR`s for Ford. What happens if you fail the class and why are people having so much trouble? Anything in particular?

There is a three part exam at the end of the class based on;
- Participation, Do you or do you not participate in class room activities/discussions,

- the core tools and the specification, 30 minute/25 question exam for supplier auditors. There is no classroom discussion/hints on these topics. You MUST know the content prior to taking the test,

- Presentation, On the morning of the exam you are randomly assigned a clause from the specification and given 30 minutes to prepare a presentation defining the Inputs, Activities, Support Processes,Linkages/Interfaces, Outputs and Measurements. You then make a ten/15 minute presentation.

If you fail, as I did, then you only have to re-take the portion you failed, which haven't; mostly due ti time and primarily due to funding.

Eight weeks prior to taking this exam I took the ISO 14001 exam and passed. It was a much more rigorous with equal amounts of time spent on the specification and auditing the process.
With the TS2 course we did have classroom presentatiions and mock audits between groups, but there was very little discussion and virtually no critique from the instructors.