Tip of the hat

[Mike Smith]

Course Results

I do have to agree with you Bigfoot. Way to much subjectivity. I did not poll the whole class, but I did discuss the results with two of the participants. They seemed to have the same opinion as you and I. One of them said from what he understood, there was a 7 out of 167 who passed rate in our class.

Just curious, was the turtle diagram that you guys did in your class on management review or some other process. I thought I did quite good on this portion of the test until I got the results back. 27 out of 50. Needless to say, this killed me on the test. I did well on the other portions. I would love to see a turtle diagram on management review if anyone out there has one.

By the way, we are a certifed company to TS16949. I was the lead and only person responsible for implementation, so I must know something. What really gets me is this, these quality systems are supposed to give you freedom to implement a system that fits your company needs, which is what we have done. Then you go to one of these courses and find out that you are not competent according to one of the instructors opinions on what he/she thinks should be in your turtle diagram. Give me a break. Our management review was just fine according to the registrar. and its worked fine for our organization. Can you tell that I am a little peeved at the whole process.

 

[Sam]

Mike,
The real kicker to this process is that you do not have to be a certified lead auditor in order to implement and perform internal audits.
However, and this is a big HOWEVER, you have to have successfully completed training, such as AIAG internal auditing for ISO/TS 16949:2002, in order to audit your suppliers.
The pass/fail rate that bigfoot states lends credibility to the rumor that CB's are competing with organizations to gain control of the supplier auditing process.

 

[Bigfoot]

Obtaining Class Results

AIAG offers two courses for lead auditor certification; the one described here and the other which is for TS 16949 supplier lead auditor only. The agenda and grading process are different, but the subjectivity is the same.

Bigfoot, How did you obtain the class results? AIAG/Plexus will not release such information. I guess I can only assume that you callled each person in the class.

Sam;
Going into the class I was aware of the industry "buzz" of the 25 - 30% 1st time pass rate and determined if the opportunity presented itself to be able to conduct some sort of a survey of the participants I would try to collect some data. During the class they collected business cards & email addresses for those who wished to be able to stay in touch with others in the group and made each person a copy of them. I conducted a poll via email of those who had expressed this interest. Additionally I was able to obtain results for the 3 in the group who chose not to leave an e-mail address through other contacts I have who were acquainted with these individuals. Of the respondendents only one is second hand so I feel they are fairly accurate. The most interesting result I found was the absence of results for 2 of the participants, which doesn't speak well of the notification process.

As far as I am aware the Plexus trainers would only know the results of a class they were responsible for grading, and you are correct that AIAG won't release the results. I have had the opportunity to discuss the 2 courses you mentioned with some people who do training for them. Their response regarding the differences between the 2 courses lies mainly in the testing methods for the CB auditors. Both courses are very demanding, and my interpretation of their responses was that if you were not being required to take them, don't.

 

[Bigfoot]

Mike,
The real kicker to this process is that you do not have to be a certified lead auditor in order to implement and perform internal audits.
However, and this is a big HOWEVER, you have to have successfully completed training, such as AIAG internal auditing for ISO/TS 16949:2002, in order to audit your suppliers.
The pass/fail rate that bigfoot states lends credibility to the rumor that CB's are competing with organizations to gain control of the supplier auditing process.

I am inclined to agree with your assessment, Sam!!