ISO 9001 News Tirelessly Improving the Brand Integrity of ISO 9001 - Working Group under ISO TC 176

[Antonio Vieira]

2020 could be a great year for a new ISO 9001..., a real standard...

 

[Peter Fraser]

Mike

You are correct that it "should be promoted" - but I am not sure how on earth that would be done - with posters, maybe? And how would compliance be assessed?

 

[Jim Wynne]

The process approach is not a requirement????

Section 4 is largely saying in a lot of words "use the process approach" and section 5 requires leadership to promote the process approach.

Please, let us not do this again.

 

[Sidney Vianna]

If anyone is interested in this free, online event happening tomorrow. CQI Wolverhampton - ISO 9001 Brand Integrity - where did it go wrong?, Online, 21 September 2021

 

[Kronos147]

Please, let us not do this again.

While I hear where you are coming from, that thread was closed prior to the release of ISO 9001:2015.

In the current standard it only discusses identifying and controlling processes (the essence of processes approach) in the following sections:
0.1 General, 0.2 Quality Management Principles, 0.3.1 Process Approach: General, 4.4.1 AQMS and its Processes, 5.1.1 Leadership and Commitment: General, 5.3 Organizational Roles, Responsibilities and Authorities, 6.1.2 Planning: Actions to Address Risks and Opportunities, 7.1.4 Environment for the Operation of Processes, 8.1 Operational Planning and Control, 9.2.2 Internal Audit, 9.3.2 Management Review: Inputs

 

[Sidney Vianna]

Over three years since this thread was started and probably over 4 years since the ISO 9001 Brand Integrity TG has been in place. And absolutely nothing publicly available as a result from this group. Taking into account that ISO 9001 is ISO's best selling product and the reason for numerous other management system standards and they can't address the reasons for it's shortcomings in an expeditiously manner, makes one wonder if such pathetic performance would be tolerated in a private enterprise. And, then, I am sure, they will like to be taken seriously by the stakeholders they are supposed to serve.

 

[Mike S.]

I hear what you are saying, but maybe we are better off this way. Knowing this group, perhaps their "improvements" wouldn't be improvements at all.

 

[Sidney Vianna]

I hear what you are saying, but maybe we are better off this way. Knowing this group, perhaps their "improvements" wouldn't be improvements at all.

I think there is very little to be concerned about from this group. They have already announced that their deliverables/output will be 7 or 8 "position papers". A deeply flawed conformity assessment sector, generating tens of billions of dollars in revenue per year won't be threatened by useless "position papers".

The certification façade will be maintained and we will see thousands of press releases using buzzwords such as rigorous assessments, robust verifications, in-depth scrutiny, etc....referring to valueless audits and certificates.

 

[Miner]

Over three years since this thread was started and probably over 4 years since the ISO 9001 Brand Integrity TG has been in place. And absolutely nothing publicly available as a result from this group. Taking into account that ISO 9001 is ISO's best selling product and the reason for numerous other management system standards and they can't address the reasons for it's shortcomings in an expeditiously manner, makes one wonder if such pathetic performance would be tolerated in a private enterprise. And, then, I am sure, they will like to be taken seriously by the stakeholders they are supposed to serve.

The other TCs and WGs are not much better. I review, comment and vote on some of the statistical standards and have a very low opinion of their value. Most of the comments are rejected out of hand with no explanation as to the reason. ISO seems more interested in maximizing the number of standards to increase revenue rather than providing true value.

 

[Mikey324]

Is it tough to see why organizations are losing faith in the certification process?? I don't necessarily think its because they feel unworthy people are getting certified.