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To CAR or not to CAR (Corrective Action Request) - Sales changing prices

F

fuzzy

#11
#11
Bernard Alderson said:
Trish,
That your sales has to understand as a support process their contribution to the product or service is of vital importance. Get it wrong at this point and it doesn't matter what you do there after. 7.2.2 of the ISO9001 standard clearly states that requirements of the product must be review, one of these requirements is cost. So their must be agreement between the customer and sales regarding what is going to be delivered, then it will be delivered and at what price.

Our sales team took a bit of a soft line on this point until, they actions raised against them for a system break down. Only then were they willing to comply with the requirements. If there is no system in place for the review of requirement then put it in place and conduct the training. However if the system is in place then you need to be a little harder on them.

I certainly hope this helps, if you have any other issues regarding sales and the application of the ISO requirements and can e-mail direct as I have had extensive experience with sales and their lack of willingness.

Bernard
Click to expand...
I have a totally different view from y'all:notme: Why is this issue within the scope of an ISO 9K system? I do not interpret 7.2.2 to get into the details of pricing strategies and revision mechanisms...If Trish has included these processes within her QMS, that makes them auditable only against said procedures, but I would have never incorporated Sales process details into my QMS:notme: . :2cents:

I'm a slow typer so Jim and Ralph beat me to the punch...:biglaugh:
 
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T

Tupham - 2008

#12
#12
Everyone who responded to my enquiry receives a :thanks: today! YOu've all given me useful feedback and confirmed my own thinking (which is ALWAYS nice! ;) )

In fact, this is an issue which head office staff have been banging their heads against the wall about for years. The company has had formal procedures (but NO review process :bonk: ) in place for about 5 years, but the computer system doesn't support the procedure with appropriate controls. In the past couple of days management has finally concluded that something has to be done, so it's a moot point now.

Maybe I am naive here, but why would you issue a CAR for a system that really hasn't been established or has had a chance to Mature?
Click to expand...
Coury - this occurred to me last night, but I was thinking ahead. I expect I won't actually start issuing CARs until all of the procedures have been updated and we start internal audits. Until then, it's :argue: and hopefully implement some changes.

Thanks again, everyone!!!
 
T

Tupham - 2008

#13
#13
fuzzy said:
I have a totally different view from y'all:notme: Why is this issue within the scope of an ISO 9K system? I do not interpret 7.2.2 to get into the details of pricing strategies and revision mechanisms...If Trish has included these processes within her QMS, that makes them auditable only against said procedures, but I would have never incorporated Sales process details into my QMS:notme: . :2cents:
Click to expand...
Part of my job is to implement an intranet for all operating manuals, work instructions, training materials, etc., throughout the company and the QMS is the glue that will hold it all together. Staff will neither care nor want to know whether a problem is QMS-related or otherwise.

I believe we need a seamless system of review/correction that covers all procedures. How do others deal with this?
 
F

fuzzy

#14
#14
Tupham said:
Part of my job is to implement an intranet for all operating manuals, work instructions, training materials, etc., throughout the company and the QMS is the glue that will hold it all together. Staff will neither care nor want to know whether a problem is QMS-related or otherwise.

I believe we need a seamless system of review/correction that covers all procedures. How do others deal with this?
Click to expand...
Prior to being laid-off yesterday:crybaby: , the past week's dilemma was what you describe: a new wave of procedures / WI's that covered many non-ISO processes was coming our way, and Management wanted to enjoy the benefits of the document control process. So I had initiated the beginnings of a duplicate folder for this system, that would be similar but simpler( No ISO clause numbering schemes, no template rigidity, etc.) I was concerned prior to my canning about resources, but now there are no, repeat NO:mad: , document control personnel except two temporary employees handling engineering documentation only...the witness re-registration audit is scheduled for the end of Feb:lmao: ...I don't think they will survive this self-inflicted wound. But it seemed that the Top Management was much more concerned about passing the Internal Corporate Finance audit :ca: (which was driving the new documentation), than they were about ISO. Not exactly a shock to me:notme: , but stunning in the stupidity of it's short-term tunnel vision. So they saved maybe $100K with me but put $2.2M worth of business for 2007 at risk:bonk: .
 
G

Gert Sorensen

#15
#15
It's sad to hear about your employment situation. I bet there is a good deal of frustration running through your veins right now :mad:
I've been there and done that, so take it from me: It is not a sad situation, it is a promise of better times to come. You obviously have a proffessional approach to your work, and in due time you will find an employer who will value what you have to offer. Use the experience from this situation in the screening process when you seek new employment, and take a good look at some of the discussions started by Wes Bucey on jobseeking.

Best of luck in your endeavours to find a new and better job. :bigwave:
 
B

Bernard Alderson

#17
#17
To me the fundimentals of quality come into question when carrying out contract review - The quality of the product (specifications)
On time delivery and packaging issues and the price, as price ties directly into the product and packages you are delivering.
 
Coury Ferguson

Coury Ferguson

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Staff member
Super Moderator
#18
#18
Bernard Alderson said:
To me the fundimentals of quality come into question when carrying out contract review - The quality of the product (specifications)
On time delivery and packaging issues and the price, as price ties directly into the product and packages you are delivering.
Click to expand...
That is where it all starts...upfront at the pre-planning phase before acceptance of tender.
 
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