To tell or not to tell.

C

Corsair

#1
Hello everyone,
I am in a situation in the company I work, that makes you think on what kind of professionals we really are.

We were been beat up (certificate action suspension, civil penalties) by one regulatory body and at the very same time we were re-certify with another regulatory body.

I don't think we told the truth to the auditors and for sure we hide this information from them.The certification could be withdrawn at anytime if they find out that we lied to them.

What I read once on this forum, "is all about on how you play the game".
I thought that you supposed to tell the truth and not to hide anything from the auditors and or the regulators.This all issue could have serious consequences down the road.

Myself, together with some of my peers, we think to go and inform our legal department on this issue.
First we like to know some of the opinions from the gurus on this forum.

Thank you.
 
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BradM

Staff member
Admin
#2
For me, I would tell. Life is too short living with a lie. If you presented/told the auditors something that you knew was not true, then to me you have an ethical responsibility to make it right.

You make take a beating, but to me, it's still worth it, knowing you have been honest about doing business.:)
 

Pancho

wikineer
Super Moderator
#3
You should raise the issue with your boss first. Explain to him or her your viewpoint and ask for her opinion on the best way to present the issue to both your superiors. Offer to draft a memo to the legal department or to your boss's boss.

Chances are that your boss will back you up. If not, then at least you are not going around him or her when you do blow the whistle.
 

Jim Wynne

Staff member
Admin
#4
Hello everyone,
I am in a situation in the company I work, that makes you think on what kind of professionals we really are.

We were been beat up (certificate action suspension, civil penalties) by one regulatory body and at the very same time we were re-certify with another regulatory body.

I don't think we told the truth to the auditors and for sure we hide this information from them.The certification could be withdrawn at anytime if they find out that we lied to them.

What I read once on this forum, "is all about on how you play the game".
I thought that you supposed to tell the truth and not to hide anything from the auditors and or the regulators.This all issue could have serious consequences down the road.

Myself, together with some of my peers, we think to go and inform our legal department on this issue.
First we like to know some of the opinions from the gurus on this forum.

Thank you.
I think you brought this up (or a similar situation) last January, no? Even if this is something new, you should read through that thread again (and some of the links in it).
 

Marc

Hunkered Down for the Duration with a Mask on...
Staff member
Admin
#5
What I read once on this forum, "is all about on how you play the game".
It is, but that does not include lying, half truths, or other types of fraud. I can not remember a post anywhere in the forum in which anyone ever suggested lying to an auditor (or anyone else, for that matter). Lying or deceiving is a BIG no-no.
 

Sidney Vianna

Post Responsibly
Staff member
Admin
#6
First we like to know some of the opinions from the gurus on this forum.
People here would take you more seriously if you followed through. As Jim pointed out, you have already been down this road here before. Reading through your previous posts indicates that you believe that you work for an organization that is full of incompetent and unethical people. In another thread, you mentioned that you work for a repair station. I had already provided you with means to make an anonymous call to the FAA.

Besides all of the legal mumbo jumbo, I wonder if you could live with the knowledge that, due to the actions of some and inactions of others (such as yourself, who know of wrongdoings and do nothing about it) that lives were lost, due to a plane crash. This is serious stuff. My impression is that you come here to stir the pot but you are totally unwilling to follow through and do the right thing. You've been talking about this for a long time. What else do you need?
 

Wes Bucey

Quite Involved in Discussions
#7
Hello everyone,
I am in a situation in the company I work, that makes you think on what kind of professionals we really are.

We were been beat up (certificate action suspension, civil penalties) by one regulatory body and at the very same time we were re-certify with another regulatory body.

I don't think we told the truth to the auditors and for sure we hide this information from them.The certification could be withdrawn at anytime if they find out that we lied to them.

What I read once on this forum, "is all about on how you play the game".
I thought that you supposed to tell the truth and not to hide anything from the auditors and or the regulators.This all issue could have serious consequences down the road.

Myself, together with some of my peers, we think to go and inform our legal department on this issue.
First we like to know some of the opinions from the gurus on this forum.

Thank you.
I think you brought this up (or a similar situation) last January, no? Even if this is something new, you should read through that thread again (and some of the links in it).
Jim seems to have remembered better than you. I took a look at ALL your posts since you joined the Cove and they seem to be all about YOU finding fault with the way other folks conduct business and acting "holier than thou" over the issue.

We have a thread which addresses the topic of when and how to become an informant. Read through Ethics - Moral law vs. Criminal law and make a decision whether the issue seems important enough to retain an attorney and proceed to become an informant. If not, you really have only two choices:

  1. suck it up and keep your head down while doing your job
  2. look for another job
If you choose to look for another job, make sure your investigation of the prospective employer includes research into whether it is operating legally and ethically.

You can start the job search by reading through these threads
Thinking about a New Job for New Year?

Resume and cover letter - How good are yours?

The Job Hunt - Care and feeding of references

Tips to get past the "gatekeeper" when job hunting

Consulting – Is it in YOUR Career Future?

Contracting/Temping - Viable Alternates in Tough Times
 

Jen Kirley

Quality and Auditing Expert
Staff member
Admin
#9
I remember the squeaks of indignation when Firestone's Decatur tire plant closed: "Weren't they a QS9000 plant??!" To which I replied, "Yep, but it's not that hard to conceal stuff from outside auditors."

Some years ago I was a Safety Manager for a small machine shop. It was pretty much an empty title, but I eventually explained to my boss's cousin, the plant manager, that I didn't want the job anymore because I could be held up to 15% liable in event of lawsuit or catastrophic accident that caused an investigation. The basis for the potential liability is that the person presumably knew better and did not act to resolve the problem.

That premise could also be why auditors like myself are ethically bound to report regulatory breaches to the people who have authority and resources to resolve the problem.

Reporting is one thing - the people I made my reports to in that machine shop chose not to take action. That happens all the time. "Follow through" can be difficult when one is not in a position of authority. Sometimes the best thing to do is self preservation...I know a handful of QA and safety managers who have done just that by leaving the company behind.
 

Sidney Vianna

Post Responsibly
Staff member
Admin
#10
"Follow through" can be difficult when one is not in a position of authority. Sometimes the best thing to do is self preservation...I know a handful of QA and safety managers who have done just that by leaving the company behind.
I wholeheartedly agree. To be clear, when I mentioned follow through I meant do something, such as reporting it and/or leaving the organization.

To come here every few months, making "soft" accusations, asking for advice, not doing anything and repeating the process ad nauseum makes us think the OP is not serious.
 
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