To which tier do you need PPAP

[Hakan]

Can anyone please help me with some interpretation of QS9000:
Situation: We have customers asking for PPAP's according to QS9000. Our customers are normally Tier 2-4 (never Tier 1). How far down the chain of suppliers are PPAP's supposed to be required ? Is there any formal interpretation that can help both us and our customer ?
Our company manufactures wire which is used to manufacture different types of springs.

 

[Laura M]

Would be interested in interpretation as well. I've seen as far as Tier 2, but not 3 or 4. Of course with Delphi now being Tier 1, not GM, all the Delphi suppliers because Tier 2 instantly. Does anyone know if Delphi has published their expectations?

 

[Howard Atkins]

This has arisen before. I am demanding PPAP from Tier 3 for a part which I assembly to a saftey part for the fuel system. All my Tier customers expect PPAP from me.
This returns to 4.6.2.1 Subcontractor development, "goal of subcontractor compliance to QS9000 using Section I of QS9000" Section I includes PPAP in the 3rd Edition.
I beleive that PPAP in some form protects both the supplier and the customer as it helps define the way that the supplier works. As a supplier to the Auto industry one should expect that your suppliers are also working with the same tools and towards the same aims as you.
In Hakan's case he is a bulk material supplier and "PPAP is not required unless requested by your customer"- Applicability 3rd Edition page 1.
I hope this helps.

 

[Spaceman Spiff]

I agree with Howard. Usually the customer documents the requirement for PPAP as part of the purchase order (or addendum). It then becomes part of the contract review. I have seen suppliers requote a job because PPAP wasn't part of the original PO verbiage.

 

[Laura M]

So Howard, Tier 1's can determine which supplied parts they require PPAP on, based on use and criticality? That's a good approach.

 

[Howard Atkins]

It is not just use and criticality, but also the expectation of the level of your suppliers. Your demands must be such that you can be certain that the parts that you receive are at the standard that you need to produce your part for your customer.

 

[Laura M]

I was justs thinking how during my day's at Delphi we required PPAP for catalogue items like tie wraps sometimes. Just wondering how much cost could be taken out of product if Tier 1's did carte blanche require "all" parts. Not sure if there is more work in deciding which ones, or just doing "all." Administratively at the Tier 1 location if nothing else.

 

[Marc]

Originally posted by Spaceman Spiff:
I agree with Howard. Usually the customer documents the requirement for PPAP as part of the purchase order (or addendum). It then becomes part of the contract review. I have seen suppliers requote a job because PPAP wasn't part of the original PO verbiage.

And this is as it should be...