Too many different types of audit!!!


Systems Guy

I work for an Automotive Supplier to GM, Ford, Chrysler, Renault, Nissan & a handful of others.

My problem is that customer requiremtns on internal auditing is becoming the bane of my life!
I am now expected to organise and try and book collegues & my own time to do;

QS9000 internal Auditing
FIEV Auditing
Gemba Kanri Auditing
Important Part Auditing &
Parts & Process Auditing

The problem that lies ahead is that if our Engineers were to audit our 30 departments to QS9000 & FIEV, and our 5 factory units to Gemba, Imp Part & P&P auditing - they would have very little time for anyting else!

At the moment it appears that we have a couple of audits a week to complete - this can't go on!?

My questions are;
Is anyone else out there experiancing the same problems?
How are you overcomming it?
Is there a common Auditing system that combines all 5 in the pipeline?

Please help....

barb butrym

Quite Involved in Discussions
create your own scope to cover all the requirements as appropriate... assign more staff to the audit team...and clearly define the scope of the audits....that is your key...the scope....while doing an audit of an area include the part stuff for any in that area....As long as its documented properly to show what was done, you will be fine. A desk review will pull together the whole picture for the additional global stuff.

[This message has been edited by barb butrym (edited 07 March 2000).]


Fully vaccinated are you?
16949 should reconcile QS9000 and FIEV requirements. I have no idea what Gemba Kanri Auditing is nor did an internet search provide a clue.

I disagree with barb's ideas of simply limiting (define your own???) scope and assigning more staff. The total scope of the audits as a whole will always be the same from a high level view - it will be the scope of your registration. As far as adding more staff - sounds nice - but - where from? Do you hire more people or do you assume people don't have enough to do now and assign them these additional duties? Naw - that's not an answer.

Unfortunately folks like Dennis Arter (The Audit Guy) are pushing hard to make internal auditing into a profession. They want them to go through certification programs and such. They want them to interpret the specs as well.

What is your answer? Depends upon your company but the bottom line is it means money. Just as the banking system has endured for years, manufacturing is now in the hands of auditors.

If I was you I would make up a matrix with all the requirements. I did it way back in 1993 to consolidate / relate ISO9001 and VDA6. See and look for QS-Req.pdf

You also have to look at your list. There are:

Systems audits:
Are your systems compliant to, and do they fully address requirements like ISO9001 and QS9000 and FIEV? The management rep should do this.
Are employees following the systems? Internal auditors should do these at the same time that they do process audits.

Process audits - Are employees following process documemtation requirements? Internal auditors should do these.

Part audits - QA/Inspection should determine sampling plans and perform.

I have no idea what 'important part' auditing is about, by the way.

These are just suggestions and may not be right for your company. Also see: and for some more ideas.

Systems Guy

Thanks Marc & Barb,

I appreciate the advice but I have to lean towards Marcs answer.

We are a 2nd tier Supplier with 500/600 employees, the problem is that people just simply do not have the time to do auditing as much as it is currently required. We are QS9000 & ISO14001 registered & are about to embark on the 16949 mission! Every time we train a set of Auditing Champions - 1 from every dept, they either leave the business, get promoted, or just don't have the time to audit when we require.

The only way I can see round this amount of work would be to either;
Recruit someone who's sole responsibility in in lfe would be to audit, or
create an audit that combines the requirements of all the systems and conducting 1 audit per dept per year - (effectivley killing 5 birds with one stone)
This obviously being the more complicated answer as I wouldn't know where to start!!

Thanks for the threads - very interesting, it seems I'm not on my own!!

If anyone has an auditing system of this kind, give me some hints - pleeease!

barb butrym

Quite Involved in Discussions
in reality we are not all that far off, actually when i say change the scope...and you say do a matrix....thats where I was headed...find the overlap, audit once...the scope now covers both....I do a scope for each audit...not the program...guess I was unclear......the old age is slipping in.....LOL..or the perhaps spring fever.
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