Tooling Management - Definition of "Tool" - 4.2.6.2

F

Frank45

#1
I've read the Glossary on "TOOL", but we are having trouble coming to a common ground to the meaning of "Tool" During our last QS9000 audit the auditor said that "tool means work holding fixture, like casting mold, stamping die, etc. It does not mean perishable tooling, like drills, reamers, inserts.

Also the "Full dimensional inspection" requirement has caused some confusion. The auditor stated " It does not mean checking every dimension of the tool. It means checking the dimensions of the product." The auditor stated that no one really cares if the tool is right. It is the product being right that matters."

I'm asking "How have others addressed the 4.2.6.2 requirements?
 
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A

Al Dyer

#2
Frank,

Your definition of tools is what we have used for years and many audits.

As for "full demensional inspection", we consider it an inspection of the product, unless we designed and contracted the manufacture of a special tool that is not available "off the shelf".

In these instances we dimensionally inspect the tool to our design because any errors might affect other tools or workholding in the process.

ASD...

[This message has been edited by Al Dyer (edited 15 April 2001).]
 
T

tim banic

#3
I can't define tool without being censored.

Tim

"If it moves, train it...if it doesn't move, calibrate it...if it isn't written down, it never happened!"
 
J

James

#4
A tool would be the item which transforms the material into a product. This does not include work holding devices. (i.e. jigs or fixtures) Dies and Molds are tools because they make product. Clamps are not.
As I see it all tooling is perishable, weather it is drills, inserts,

As far as measurements go I agree that it is the part that is to be measured.
 

Marc

Hunkered Down for the Duration
Staff member
Admin
#5
All tooling is 'perishable'

James said:
As I see it all tooling is perishable, weather it is drills, inserts,
Any thoughts on whether all tooling is 'perishable'?
 

Manoj Mathur

Quite Involved in Discussions
#6
Yes, I also believe that Tools are perishable.
But I differ with the view of Frank's Auditor that Stamping Die and Moulds are not tools.
We in our Aluminum Alloy Wheel Plant at Silvassa, made a list of all the tools which includes LPDC (Low Pressure Die Casting) moulds, CNC inserts, CNC Drill bits etc. In my view, the object which is coming in contact with product is to be considered as tools provided it helps to convert from material to Product (Change the size, shape, form etc.)
 

Caster

An Early Cover
Trusted Information Resource
#7
Frank45 said:
I've read the Glossary on "TOOL", but we are having trouble coming to a common ground to the meaning of "Tool" During our last QS9000 audit the auditor said that "tool means work holding fixture, like casting mold, stamping die, etc. It does not mean perishable tooling, like drills, reamers, inserts.
Frank45 said:
Also the "Full dimensional inspection" requirement has caused some confusion. The auditor stated " It does not mean checking every dimension of the tool. It means checking the dimensions of the product." The auditor stated that no one really cares if the tool is right. It is the product being right that matters." I'm asking "How have others addressed the 4.2.6.2 requirements?
Wow, exactly opposite here.

We include drills, inserts, etc. as tools, because they are perishable

We want to check they are OK before we make tons of scrap (which we think is the intent of the requirement)

our second paragerah is a familar arguement I call "measure the steel OR measure the part"

Of course if we don't check the mold (or die) we can catch the problem by measuring the part made from it. The only difference is all the scrap costs made doing it this way.

Sounds to me like this auditor has overstepped. It is up to you to define tools and control of them, not up to him to tell you how to run your buinsess.
 
Last edited by a moderator:

Helmut Jilling

Auditor / Consultant
#8
1. We are discussing QS-9000 definitions, when the standard will expire in 5 months? Gee, that's interesting...

2. A quick read of QS element 4.2.6.2, it should be quickly apparent it discusses both perishable tooling (drills, reamers, etc.) and longer term tooling (dies, molds). Both have to be managed to an approrpiate degree, or they wouldn't have mentioned them.

3. An auditor who says "nobody cares what dimensions a tool has..." has marshmallows for brains! If we didn't care, why would we spend so much time and money making tooling drawings? And if the tool is not accurate, how can the parts be accurate?

4. Some molds are hard to validate because the palstic material has so many variables, so some molders do the FINAL validattion by measuring the parts. But, you still want to verify the tool itself meets the criteria!:bonk:
 
K

Keith.Lau

#9
The dictionary (Free dictionary) definition of tooling is:
2. The process of providing a factory with machinery in preparation for production.

which has a larger scope including equipment other than dies and tool cutters. Is there an ISO/TS 16949 definition on this?
 

Helmut Jilling

Auditor / Consultant
#10
The TS standard does not show a specific definition. I did not see one in ISO 9000 either. However, in 18 years of auditing and consulting, I don't recall this ever being a real question. It would generally and logically include the molds, dies, inserts, components of the tools, and custom or perishable cutting type tools. Anything used to shape or form or render the parts. Further, there are also fixtures, often custom, that are used to hold or measure the parts. I would expect to include that as well.

Why do you ask?
 
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