Top Management and Competence, Awareness, Training

somashekar

Staff member
Super Moderator
#1
There is a very important word in the clause 5 of the ISO 9001; TOP MANAGEMENT.
Who is your Top management ? One person say the MD or CEO ., Board of Directors., A Top Management Team., .... ?
How deep is their understanding about the ISO9001 standard, the 2008 release. Have they been trained about the standard, about the intents of the clause 5. Do you maintain their training records ? Are they mapped in the training plans going further ? Does your certification agency ask and look for this anytime in the audits ? Is the same done in your internal audits ??.
 

Ajit Basrur

Staff member
Admin
#2
I would consider the Top Managemnt of the site as the top guy plus all his direct reports, who collectively as a team translate the policy into goals and objectives and project a shared vision for the future of the organization. They make decisions and are responsible for success / failure of that organization.

Thus the GM and all frontline managers of that plant are "top management".

Yes, they should have their applicable training records - all companies that I worked have training plans to include all employees incl the "top management" but seldom it has been verified by auditors :)
 
R

Richard Pike

#3
There is a very important word in the clause 5 of the ISO 9001; TOP MANAGEMENT.
Who is your Top management ? One person say the MD or CEO ., Board of Directors., A Top Management Team., .... ?
How deep is their understanding about the ISO9001 standard, the 2008 release. Have they been trained about the standard, about the intents of the clause 5. Do you maintain their training records ? Are they mapped in the training plans going further ? Does your certification agency ask and look for this anytime in the audits ? Is the same done in your internal audits ??.

Top Management = If you can't sign the cheque - you're not!!!


Maybe on a more realistic issue = Those responsible for Profit & Loss.

The people responsible for Setting the Quality Policy and Company Objectives.

Training Records for Top Management - no way!

Overview of ISO 9001 - yep that's a good idea BUT MOST DEFINITELY the Eight Management Principles found in ISO 9000 - but that can be self studied.

A Flash interactive presentation is available from www.hoquality.com
On line examinations & certification are also available.
(note - I am the MD of this organization)

Auditor Questions :

How do they know their system is effective?
What improvements have they instigated?
Which Processes do they have a direct impact on?
Which QMS processes are their subordinates responsible for?
 
Last edited by a moderator:
#4
I don't have my copy of ISO 9000 in front of me, but it defines who top management is. But it is not always the one who writes the check. I have two clients. One the owner (the person who writes the check) does not want to be involved in running the business. He hired a business manager to run the office and a shop manager to run the shop. Together, they are the top management, according to their QMS. The second company, the president assembled a Guidance Team. They are defined (and given full authority) as top management in their QMS. In both cases, the QMS is fully registered and works quite effectively. But also, in both cases. The owner (president) has given full authority to the "top management". It allows the owner freedom to do other things but the day-to-day running of the business and administrating the QMS/EMS/SMS.
 

Stijloor

Staff member
Super Moderator
#5
I don't have my copy of ISO 9000 in front of me, but it defines who top management is. But it is not always the one who writes the check. I have two clients. One the owner (the person who writes the check) does not want to be involved in running the business. He hired a business manager to run the office and a shop manager to run the shop. Together, they are the top management, according to their QMS. The second company, the president assembled a Guidance Team. They are defined (and given full authority) as top management in their QMS. In both cases, the QMS is fully registered and works quite effectively. But also, in both cases. The owner (president) has given full authority to the "top management". It allows the owner freedom to do other things but the day-to-day running of the business and administrating the QMS/EMS/SMS.
From ISO 900:2005:
3.2.7 top management
person or group of people who directs and controls an organization (3.3.1) at the highest level.
Emphasis mine.

Stijloor.
 
R

Richard Pike

#6
I don't have my copy of ISO 9000 in front of me, but it defines who top management is. But it is not always the one who writes the check. I have two clients. One the owner (the person who writes the check) does not want to be involved in running the business. He hired a business manager to run the office and a shop manager to run the shop. Together, they are the top management, according to their QMS. The second company, the president assembled a Guidance Team. They are defined (and given full authority) as top management in their QMS. In both cases, the QMS is fully registered and works quite effectively. But also, in both cases. The owner (president) has given full authority to the "top management". It allows the owner freedom to do other things but the day-to-day running of the business and administrating the QMS/EMS/SMS.
Are you saying that those (delegated) people cannot - write the cheque. If not, how do they assure that the necessary resources are available. If required expenses needed to operate the QMS has to be asked for - (asked for by so called Top Management) then (in my opinion) those people do not qualify as "Top Management".

(I am not referring to normal budgetary control that even the "owner" id subject to.)
 
#7
Are you saying that those (delegated) people cannot - write the cheque. If not, how do they assure that the necessary resources are available. If required expenses needed to operate the QMS has to be asked for - (asked for by so called Top Management) then (in my opinion) those people do not qualify as "Top Management".

(I am not referring to normal budgetary control that even the "owner" id subject to.)
Good questions... In both cases, the owner/president relies on the input of the team. It is a matter of trust. If the team says they need resources for this, or for that, then the owner/president will work with the team to provide the resources. The team also knows that trust is earned, so they make sure that any requests are, in fact, valid and necessary. BTW.... this would also include such things as new capital expenses that might not be associated with the QMS/EMS/SMS. Even upgrading the computers or replacing the company truck.
 

Marc

Captain Nice
Staff member
Admin
#8
Caution: It appears this requires the usual name, rank and email address (requires registration and if you don't register you don't have any access to free materials). The link is to the company's main page rather than to the actual presentation, which is kinda not the purpose of links here.
 
R

Richard Pike

#9
Caution: It appears this requires the usual name, rank and email address (requires registration and if you don't register you don't have any access to free materials). The link is to the company's main page rather than to the actual presentation, which is kinda not the purpose of links here.
Sorry Marc - I didn't infer in the post that the material or the examination & certification were free. (altho sneak peak exams are there - for free & and the membership page is really no great effort) This is only the 2nd time I have referred to my companies site - in 160 posts!

Are you saying that if its not for free, then it shouldn't be refereed to? I just want to understand the rules that,s all and don't want to tread on anybody's toes - at least unwittingly!
 

Marc

Captain Nice
Staff member
Admin
#10
Well, there's no significant compaint per se. The post was reported. We're just a bit touchy here about self promotion. Your post count and content were taken into account. Had they not been, the post would have been heavily edited or deleted as 'advertising'.

I *very much* appreciate your time here and your helping others. A direct link to what you were referencing would have been the better choice, but like I say - Your post wasn't deleted or edited other than the live link. Please don't take it personally.
 

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