Traceability of the Contents in Gas Cylinders

T

t.PoN

#1
Is there anyone who have an idea how to evaluate the traceability of gas cylinders?

I have attached two certificates of measurement analysis, I'm at least looking for a traceability statement from the supplier, but i don't think the supplier fulfilled it.

the supplier is not accredited and auditing supplier is not an option.

can you please take a look and give me your expert opinion.

Note; The logo used in both certificates are for ISO 9001, BS 18001, and ISO 14001 certification.

Note: the value from the certificate is used a reference for calculation

Also, if you can suggest a supplier, it would be helpeful

Thanks
 

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K

kgott

#2
Re: Traceability of Gas Cylinders

I cant see how it can be done without the use of serial numbers on the cylinders nor can I see attaching a serial number tag working as it wont last long.

Its been a long time since I handled cylinders but I would imagine there would serial numbers on it somewhere. As I see it, this would be a requirement by the manufacturer for their own traceability and liability requirements. They would have also required material certs, welding certs inspection certs and even test certificates.

Perhaps I'm on the wrong track here?
 
T

t.PoN

#4
Re: Traceability of Gas Cylinders

sorry i might not have been clear enough.

the gas is used as a reference material in testing.
a cylinder with unknown value is compare with the certified gas cylinder to estimate its value.

i was thinking that iso 17025 require traceability of reference materials.

i am facing two problem in the attached certificates:
1. Is the supplier competent (As they are not accredited to ISO 43, or ISO 17025...etc.) and I don't think ISO 9001 can cut it - and I don't think they should use ISO 9001 sympol on test certificate -

2. the traceability statement? to what do you trace gases? the only traceability they give me is for the weight -mass- they used in mixing gas, but not for gas itself.

so what would you look for in a proper traceability statement in evaluating gas statement.
for example: the gas is compared with gas cylinder number certified by ....?

Note; the gas cylinder is carved with serial number but i'm not concerned about the cylinder rather than oxygen.

help please
 

dgriffith

Quite Involved in Discussions
#5
A good resource might be one of the large gas supply companies like Matheson Tri-Gas, Praxair, Airgas, Air Liquide, and so on. They may be able to help on their website, like white papers, a sample of their certs, etc. Also an email may get you specific info, too. Gotta run to work.


This, from NIST:
The Gas Metrology Group in the Chemical Sciences Division is tasked with providing traceability in gas analysis for the U.S. This group works with regulators, gas suppliers, and international partners to provide the highest level gas standards to function as the top of the traceability chain. Traceability is then realized through NIST gas standards sold as SRMs, or through gas industry standards known as NTRMs, and ultimately to end users through EPA protocol gas standards.

Other NMI's likely do the same. There is a traceability chain, however, if it can't be demonstrated through your provider, and you need it, then you need a new provider. That might only help you in the future, though. Perhaps someone else here has more help.
 
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Hershal

Metrologist-Auditor
Staff member
Super Moderator
#6
I see this often in test labs. Generally the manufacturers such as the ones mentioned by dgriffith can provide a certificate of analysis (COA). The COA should be applicable to the lot and should include the cylinder number, or in reverse the cylinder should reference back to the lot. So long as the link it there, that may be as good as it gets, depending on the manufacturer and labs used for the analysis. Sometimes the labs are accredited, sometimes not. Analysis using mass is one of the more standard methods.

The other types of certs you may get would be the ISO9001, appropriate for manufacturers.

Reference gases, unfortunately, is not a perfect world.

Hope this helps.
 
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