Traceability unequal lots/batches delivery production

andrei iuganu

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#1
I have a real situation that gives me headaches (maybe I interpret things differently): from production, a batch of 1000 pieces arrives in the packaging area. All 1000 pieces are in a cardboard box. When packing, take 100 pieces and put them in plastic bags. On this bag is put the label that for the lot uses all the code of the one that came from production (A1) only the quantity differs - 100 pieces. So the lot from production a1 has 1000 pieces the one from the packaging prepared for delivery has A1 but with 100 pieces, and in total there are 10 bags. From my point of view, I consider it wrong, I can't ensure traceability. Is this way of working correct?
 
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Ninja

Looking for Reality
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#2
What is your company's definition of "one lot"? Why?
What do you consider wrong about the current process?
Why is this in an IATF16949 forum?

I can't imagine anyone helping with the limited information you've given.
 

Tagin

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#3
From my point of view, I consider it wrong, I can't ensure traceability. Is this way of working correct?
It seems correct to me unless there is a need for traceability in the actual packaging step for some reason. E.g.,
  • Of the 10 bags, 3 are bagged & packed by one person and 7 are bagged & packed by another person, and you want traceability to the person.
  • 6 of the bags ship that week, but 4 bags don't ship for 3 months, and you need traceability to the bag level for shelf life reasons
So, can you think of a situation where traceability to the bag level would be required or helpful for your product and customers?
 
M

malasuerte

#4
Tagin' response is spot on brilliant! There is nothing wrong unless there are additional requirements for traceability to the smaller packaging.

Maybe this helps expound upon that logic - are every single one of those pieces individually marked with some sort of id#? Probably not, because you don't need traceability to the part level.
 
#5
I have a real situation that gives me headaches (maybe I interpret things differently): from production, a batch of 1000 pieces arrives in the packaging area. All 1000 pieces are in a cardboard box. When packing, take 100 pieces and put them in plastic bags. On this bag is put the label that for the lot uses all the code of the one that came from production (A1) only the quantity differs - 100 pieces. So the lot from production a1 has 1000 pieces the one from the packaging prepared for delivery has A1 but with 100 pieces, and in total there are 10 bags. From my point of view, I consider it wrong, I can't ensure traceability. Is this way of working correct?
Need more information but on initial reading, it looks acceptable. When we use the term "traceability" it refers to identifying with a control number (lot, or batch of finished product and where appropriate components) through the different stages of manufacture, assembly and distribution. In your case, if you assembled 1000 pieces, you are just dispensing the product from that assembly process in boxes of 100 quantity each. So, in essence, the 100 pieces in each of the 10 boxes belong to the same parent, the lot#.
 

andrei iuganu

Involved In Discussions
#6
Thanks to everyone for the answer.
I am not against this way of working, only that when theoretically I receive a complaint from the customer I cannot trace back exact route until the production phase, because the 1000 pieces given as an example are produced in three shifts, by 3 different operators.
 
M

malasuerte

#7
Thanks to everyone for the answer.
I am not against this way of working, only that when theoretically I receive a complaint from the customer I cannot trace back exact route until the production phase, because the 1000 pieces given as an example are produced in three shifts, by 3 different operators.
What you just stated could be the reason for doing traceability at the bag level.

What is the requirement? Is sounds like you are saying that any one of those shifts/operators could cause an error (99 instead of 100, bag not sealed, etc) and you need to be able to 'trace' back such issues.

If that is the case, then yes - you should have some additional identifier. Could be as simple as Lot # - Shift #.
 

andrei iuganu

Involved In Discussions
#8
What you just stated could be the reason for doing traceability at the bag level.

What is the requirement? Is sounds like you are saying that any one of those shifts/operators could cause an error (99 instead of 100, bag not sealed, etc) and you need to be able to 'trace' back such issues.

If that is the case, then yes - you should have some additional identifier. Could be as simple as Lot # - Shift #.
The client's request is to send the pieces in bags of 100 pieces each. Nobody stops me from adding on the label the shift
 
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Ninja

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#9
when theoretically I receive a complaint from the customer I cannot trace back exact route until the production phase, because the 1000 pieces given as an example are produced in three shifts, by 3 different operators.
That is specifically why I asked this question...
What is your company's definition of "one lot"? Why?
In my company (4yrs ago), we defined "a lot" as "one tank, one cast, one caster, one day"...if any of those changed it was a new lot#.
If we wanted trace to shift level or operator level we would have redefined what "one lot" was.
That gives you all the traceability you seek.
 
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