Tracking Of and What Is a Customer Complaint?

Marc

Hunkered Down for the Duration with a Mask on...
Staff member
Admin
#21
ISO GUY said:
If a company considers the only valid customer complaint to be a product failure (return), what does one call late delivery? What does one call it if an install person is rude and the customer calls to complain? There are many other possible things a customer can legitimately complain about.

I've never seen a company define customer complaints so narrowly so it's hard for me to 'accept', if you will.
 
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Groo3

#22
I think most are in agreement that the requirement most closely related to the original line of questioning is 7.2.3 c)... but as I see it, the piece that I would look for conformance to is 7.2.3 "The organization shall determine and implement effective arrangements ..." etc. This might lead us to take a step back and ask "what arrangements have you implemented to communicate customer complaints?" and "can you show me how these arrangements are determined to be effective?"

What I have found is that some Customers do not care what kind of system we have to handle Complaints. Some Customers want us to use their system (yes, this mostly applies to our Automotive Customers - but could be for any customer). In this case, the "effective arrangement" would be that we respond in the way the customer requests, and use their forms, and respond in the timeframe and method they prefer (phone call, fax, e-mail, etc., or all of the above). E

PS: As far as complaint validity, I think it is up to an organization to make that judgement call. In the customer's eyes, it is and may always be considered a complaint. But when all is said and done, after a root-cause investigation has been completed, we may not find fault because we met all of the stated requirements. These types of validity issues may arrise where a customer has an implied requirement that they may not yet have communicated to a supplier. To be able to "... implement effective arrangements...", I think it is in everyone's best interest to understand as many of the customers requirements as possible; and likewise to have customers understand the organizations capabilities. This mutual understanding would hopefully lead to fewer issues with the validity of a complaint. Unfortunately, this understanding is hard to keep consistent across all lines of communication between an organization and it's customers.:(
 
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RoxaneB

Super Moderator
Super Moderator
#23
Whether or not you keep a log to track CC's doesn't bother me at this point. My next question would then be how would demonstrate that you are analyzing CC's for possible trends? If you could provide me with Objective Evidence that you are indeed analyzing the data with the overall intent to continually improve, I think you're okay. You could use monthly pareto charts, or tally charts, no where do I recall the use of the word "log" being used in the Standard. *YOU* determine the method that works for you...but it must work!...it must be effective.

As an Auditor, I am not bothered by the lack of a log...IF you can prove to me in an another manner that CC's are being analyzed.

For the record, at my Organization we use an electronic system to record ALL Customer Complaints at all locations. Queries can be entered to determine how the facilities compare to each other.

Complaints are broken down into four types:

  • Invoicing
  • Service - Mill
  • Service - Sales
  • Quality

Within each of the four types there are several classifications, specific to each type.

It's a new system compared to how we used to track and we're still fixing the bugs, but it's great to see where the errors are occuring both in Production areas and Sales.
 
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A

Aaron Lupo

#24
Marc said:
If a company considers the only valid customer complaint to be a product failure (return), what does one call late delivery? What does one call it if an install person is rude and the customer calls to complain? There are many other possible things a customer can legitimately complain about.

I've never seen a company define customer complaints so narrowly so it's hard for me to 'accept', if you will.
Ok I see now! :D

JMHO, but I define as a complaint is any expression of dis-satisfaction from the client. Now, with that said some will become items that need to have an action taken and others will go into the no action required file but they will be kept for trending purposes. In any case we will get back to the client and let them know what we are going to do. We may go back to thema and say we investigated the situation and there is nothing we can do or we have done A,B,C to ensure that this will not happen again. There maybe times we say we have taken your comments into consideration blah, blah, blah, as long as you take some action the customer will be happy, as long as you don't ignore them.

I know this is off topic a bit, but how would you feel if you called and complained and never heard anything back?
 
S

Shaun Daly

#25
"Maybe all minor complaints aren't officially "tracked", "

Since ISO is based around the 8 quality management principles, and the first principle is "Customer Focus" how can any complaint from the customer be anything than a major problem?

Although I am looking at this from an automotive standpoint, where ALL customer complaints must be formally investigated & reported on in their format.
 
G

Groo3

#26
One more comment on the validity of a complaint. Even for complaints which our organization determines to be not valid, we sometimes require that corrective action is taken.

I agree with Shaun in that - in the customer's eyes "how can any complaint from the customer be anything (other) than a major problem?"

There have been quite a few quotes I have heard throughout the years, and I'm not sure where this one originated, but it was a favorite quote for one of my favorite Trainers - "Perception is Truth in the minds of the perceiver"... If a customer sees something as a problem, then the supplier should treat it as if it is a major problem. This kind of explains my first sentence... though we may not agree with the actual problem the customer sees, we need to take them serious, and take action to satisfy their complaint.:cool: E
 
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RoxaneB

Super Moderator
Super Moderator
#27
ISO GUY said:
Ok I see now! :D

JMHO, but I define as a complaint is any expression of dis-satisfaction from the client. Now, with that said some will become items that need to have an action taken and others will go into the no action required file but they will be kept for trending purposes. In any case we will get back to the client and let them know what we are going to do. We may go back to thema and say we investigated the situation and there is nothing we can do or we have done A,B,C to ensure that this will not happen again. There maybe times we say we have taken your comments into consideration blah, blah, blah, as long as you take some action the customer will be happy, as long as you don't ignore them.

I know this is off topic a bit, but how would you feel if you called and complained and never heard anything back?
We do the same thing. The adage of "The Customer is always right" isn't always the case. We've had situations where Customers have knowingly bought downgraded material and then complained that it did not meet product characteristics! :frust: Delivery was fine. Packaging was fine. When a Customer puchases secondary product they are made aware of WHY the product was downgraded. To knowingly purchase it and then complain, well, like ISO GUY, that data is kept for trending purposes.

Amazingly, ISO GUY, your last question was something our new Sales force (the old Sales force from one of the other two companies we merged with), didn't quite understand. They did not see what the big deal was when a Customer called up and no response was ever provided back.....until, that is, I put them in the place of the Customer. I asked them how they felt when they had a question or a concern and the person they asked never got back to them. Terms like "frustration", "anger", "disillusioned" were bandied about. You could see the proverbial light bulb go on then. :)
 
#28
Marc said:
You are auditing me. You ask if I track customer complaints. I say no. I say show me where it specifically says I have to track customer complaints.

What are you going to tell me?
Tracking customer complaints is not specifically required. You have to deal with them (8.5.2), and you have to monitor information relating to customer satisfaction (8.2.1) and shall analyze data relating to customer satisfaction (8.4) and consider customer feedback in management review (5.6.2), but no where are you required to "track" customer complaints. It probably makes sense, and makes the other requirements easier to fulfull, but tracking is not required.
 

Marc

Hunkered Down for the Duration with a Mask on...
Staff member
Admin
#29
Shaun Daly said:
Track is an unusual word to use
Ummm, well.... How about how do you identify valid customer complaints, how are they handled, can you show me whether you have more or less this year to last year, or something like that.

I used the word 'TRACK' because of how I see the spec. A company is supposed to be aware of customer complaints, right? Just like with FedEx or UPS - I want to be able to see at any time the status of a response to a valid customer complaint at any given point in time. I call this tracking. Just as a company has to be able to 'track' a corrective action response.

And to track a complaint, there has to be a system where they are recorded.

The important aspect really is the existence of a trigger which kicks in to make 'upper management' aware (which assumes they will then take positive action {tee hee hee!}) when inaction (usually the person who has to respond) stalls the process (doesn't do squat).

In this thread, however, my concern really is more with respect to the threshold of what is defined as a valid customer complaint. If it is only returned product (as an example), it implies late delivery is not a valid customer complaint. Can this be? Or can the company 'win' by citing Webster's definitions?
 
J
#30
OK.
I will cede that we need to track customer complaints more fully and formally than what we are.
Based on the fact that under our current system, a trackable customer comlaint = Customer return, what would the audit finding be written against?

8.5.1 Continual improvement states that the org shall continually improve throught the use of Q policy, Q objectives, Audit Results, analysis of data, corrective and preventive actions and management review.


James
 
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