Training Question

Tidge

Trusted Information Resource
Is it stated in your training/competence program or in any of your other documents/procedures/instructions? If it is, then you've shot yourself and only you are to blame (you being the organization).
In the past we received an corrective action for not having employee completed training on their review. We had records of training, but the auditors stated that it was part of establishing goals and discussing what training they completed and setting goals going forward.
Without knowing all the details of this case, I can share this: I was part of an organization that (internally) made a procedural (and ceremonial) fuss about periodic reviews which explicitly included goal-setting, review of job descriptions, training assignments, etc. The "received a corrective action" wording makes me suspect that all may not be as it appears. If a corrective action has been assigned, it's probably too late to "appeal".

It never failed: whenever I had a new person transferred into my hierarchy there would always be something blatantly wrong (training they never got assigned or completed, job titles mismatched, duties incorrect) that ought to have been corrected at any point when working for their previous supervisor(s). My own supervisors never assigned goals, and never received any formal goals of their own... even though MWER made a fuss about how it was a "goal-driven company". I suppose never putting anything in writing helped with the annual evaluation of goals for them.
 

qusys

Trusted Information Resource
In the past we received an corrective action for not having employee completed training on their review. We had records of training, but the auditors stated that it was part of establishing goals and discussing what training they completed and setting goals going forward. I do not see that as a requirement in the standard, as long as we have a records. Does that fall under a different part of the standard?
As said by the other Covers, this could be requested by your Quality System and so you shall conform to what you have planned and established. ISO 9001 standard says only for 7.2 Compentemce , point d), this requirement: "maintain appropriate documented information as evidence of the competences".
Based upon this, you shall demonstrate the way to conform to that requirement including all the other points a), b) and c) as well.
 

Bev D

Heretical Statistician
Leader
Super Moderator
It is not documented in our process. I just wanted to make sure I interpreted the standard correctly. The auditor we had was extreme. I no longer use them to conduct audits. Thanks to everyone for reinforcing my thoughts.

Fay
And so let us ask questions before we assume the poster did something wrong…
 

Mike S.

Happy to be Alive
Trusted Information Resource
In the past we received an corrective action for not having employee completed training on their review. We had records of training, but the auditors stated that it was part of establishing goals and discussing what training they completed and setting goals going forward. I do not see that as a requirement in the standard, as long as we have a records. Does that fall under a different part of the standard?
I still think there may be a "rest of the story" because there are still unanswered questions, at least in my mind. Don't get me wrong, I see lots of examples of all types of auditors writing up inappropriate "nonconformances" but I also see a lot of legitimate ones.

1st, 2nd, or 3rd party audit?

Exactly what was the text of the nonconformance? For there to be a NC there must first be a requirement. It would be nice to see what the stated requirement was.
 

Mikey324

Quite Involved in Discussions
Is it stated in your training/competence program or in any of your other documents/procedures/instructions? If it is, then you've shot yourself and only you are to blame (you being the organization).

I've played this game 100 times or more..........."It's not in the standard!!!!" "Yep you're right, but it is based on what you said you'd do in your own documentation" BAM!

Better look before you leap on something like this.

Others take heed........There's more to auditing than just "the standard".
This is true. Being as the OP asked if it was in the standard anywhere, it would seem their auditor was leading them toward that. If they were not following their own internal process, the auditor would need to reference that process/procedure to link it to the internal nonconformance, would they not?
 

Mike S.

Happy to be Alive
Trusted Information Resource
Doesn't matter, requirements are requirements.
Yes, yes, requirements are requirements, I never implied otherwise. But I was looking for some context. If an internal auditor, one generally has more influence to get an improper NC cancelled in a timely fashion, and to perhaps ensure someone will provide some needed "counsel" to the auditor. Customer auditors sometimes come at you with the "it's OUR/MY requirement" stuff, even if not formally stated anywhere.
 
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