Training Records - People who are not directly involved in processing product

[TigerLilie]

When I receive these questions from my Clients regarding "ISO says this and ISO says that", I suggest to the Client; forget about ISO for a while. Does it make business sense to keep a record of training and development activities of ALL personnel? Does it make sense to verify and record that ALL personnel are competent?

Asking: "Does it make business sense" answers many "ISO" concerns and limits getting bogged down in what the document states.

I agree with asking "Does it make business sense" and following through if the response is affirmative but the scope of these audits is specifically ISO 9001. Back to the training records for accounting staff, my view is that is out of scope for ISO 9001. The 2015 standard reads on page ix:

"This International Standard does not include requirements specific to other management systems, such as those for environmental management, occupational health and safety management, or financial management."

Thus Finance which includes accounting would be out of scope. We have about 400 employees worldwide but only a small sliver of our business which is at 1 site is 9001 certified. And I am the only QA person so I must fight scope creep and keep my focus sharply on the QMS even though certain out of scope items may make "business sense." As a team of 1, I can only do so much.

 

[Jen Kirley]

So, is the question about passing an audit or putting practices in place that help ensure the organization as a whole runs smoothly?

Do what you will - I would never have asked for training records for a payroll clerk, nor shall I in future unless it's a service performed for customers; however, I encourage everyone not to forget the big picture, and keep in mind there are some lines between systems that are a little blurry; for example, fork truck driver training and transport equipment maintenance, which are arguably for safety but can also impact product preservation.

Additionally, I know a procurement process owner who rejected a supplier during evaluation because their sites' environmental practices looked bad enough to foretell crippling fines... That may or may not have been about training, I only want to encourage a holistic perspective on this. After all, in 2015 we are asked to identify "issues" and among them could be workplace risks that could impact personnel availability to do the job, and environmental considerations to which the organization must subscribe lest they be shut down.