Training Requirements Documentation and Records - Machine Shop

L

LexieB

#1
Hi all,

I couldn't find much info on training in here, so I thought I'd throw this out there.

I am working on my company's training documentation and records. We are a machine shop, so (as I discussed in another thread) we don't have actual work instructions on how to operate the machines because we are hiring skilled machinists already (this is the logic I'm given, anyway). New hires go through a 90 day probationary period to make sure that they are skilled enough to continue working.

Question: Is it enough of a record to have the foreman sign off on some sort of statement saying (for example) "John Smith has passed the 90 day probationary period and is qualified as a Class II machinist"? Is there anything more I can do?
 
Elsmar Forum Sponsor
#2
Re: Training Requirements

Hi all,

I couldn't find much info on training in here, so I thought I'd throw this out there.

I am working on my company's training documentation and records. We are a machine shop, so (as I discussed in another thread) we don't have actual work instructions on how to operate the machines because we are hiring skilled machinists already (this is the logic I'm given, anyway). New hires go through a 90 day probationary period to make sure that they are skilled enough to continue working.

Question: Is it enough of a record to have the foreman sign off on some sort of statement saying (for example) "John Smith has passed the 90 day probationary period and is qualified as a Class II machinist"? Is there anything more I can do?
Oh yes! Much more! But first, tell us what's contained in the 90 day probationary period? It seems like this could be all kinds of things, not simply 'training'.....

BTW, it's much better to focus on competency (as has been stated in many threads here). It would be far more value-added to have a supervisor 'sign off' that someone meets a defined set of competency criteria for a skilled machinist, rather than some (possibly) 'nebulous' 'training' period.
 
L

LexieB

#3
Re: Training Requirements

Oh yes! Much more! But first, tell us what's contained in the 90 day probationary period? It seems like this could be all kinds of things, not simply 'training'.....

BTW, it's much better to focus on competency (as has been stated in many threads here). It would be far more value-added to have a supervisor 'sign off' that someone meets a defined set of competency criteria for a skilled machinist, rather than some (possibly) 'nebulous' 'training' period.
That's the thing ... I can't get much info other than "I watch them and make sure they know how to use the machines and that they're good", which I doubt is solid enough. I guess that deals with competency more than anything, but what kind of ways could you measure competency? Quality of product that comes out? % of rejects?
 
L

LexieB

#4
Re: Training Requirements

I just talked to the foreman to get more detail, and he says he is looking for mainly speed, accuracy, and safety.

I'm thinking safety can be covered in a work instruction and attested to, then I could probably check accuracy by # of rejects? Speed I guess would have to be up to foreman's discretion?
 

SteelMaiden

Super Moderator
Trusted Information Resource
#5
Re: Training Requirements

So, I'm going through a training program upgrade here. It sometimes seems so clear to me, and difficult for others, that I've begun to think it is my fault.:(

I watch them and make sure they know how to use the machines and that they're good = employee has demonstrated the skills and knowledge to (fill in the blank).

In other words, get a comprehensive list together for each job of each machine the operator must run, the types of measuring devices he needs to use, and/or calibrate, any special skills (think of using the CA/PA system) etc. If the "trainer" checks each skill off as it is learned and the operator is assessed as having demonstrated the competency to perform it you have both a training record and an assessment of competency. Going forward, that list can be looked at periodically, decisions can be made if there are other skills the person needs, if remedial training is needed, or that everything is good as is. Your foreman or whatever knows what his people need to know. He just hasn't ever sat down and put it into any kind of documented "requirements".
 

Jen Kirley

Quality and Auditing Expert
Leader
Admin
#6
Re: Training Requirements

Recording competency is the main thing. There have been a number of discussions on this subject. When you looked for them, did you notice links of related threads at the bottom of the pages? One of the links at the bottom of this page - this one - has different, better links at its bottom. You can get a lot of relevant searching done by this kind of virtual vine swinging.

I can tell you, however, that elaborate records aren't always needed. You didn't say what standard you are working to. I expect differences in this requirement between, for example ISO 17025 and a medical standard.

You may be able to get away with a simple "Yes, John/Jane is capable of running XYZ" from the supervisor, but the operator's signature affirming comfort to work in that process may also be needed.

How that determination of competency is made can be defined elsewhere, such as in the process document, a training process document etc.

Competency can be evaluated in more than one way, such as performance evals and outcome data. That has been extensively discussed in other threads.

I hope this helps!
 
#7
Having been a machinist myself, I can create a list of items that I would know should be demonstrated. Whether it's tool setting, measurement, loading and accessing data (cnc) or jigging/fixturing/work holding etc. this can all be described. I would also record the job it was demonstrated on.

It's easier for a supervisor to say that. He's never had to articulate it 'knows it when he sees it', type of thing. So, he'll need you help. It's just like saying, 'What would you have your kid sow to you, before you allow them to ride off down the street on their bike?'

He might be surprised that he'd forgotten a few things.......
 
#8
Re: Training Requirements

Question: Is it enough of a record to have the foreman sign off on some sort of statement saying (for example) "John Smith has passed the 90 day probationary period and is qualified as a Class II machinist"? Is there anything more I can do?
No where in ISO 9001 does it require a sign off for training. It does require you to maintain appropriate records. I have one client who only has 5 production workers (all machinists). If a machinist attends a class, they will keep a copy of the certificate. However, they maintain no records to show the competence. Each one has proven to be competent on each machine through operations. Like your shop, should they hire a new machinist, he/she will have to go through a 90-day probationary period. The production manager will watch the new machinist closely. With only 5 machinists, the company feels creating records would only be for the registrar's benefit, and they won't do that.

On the other hand, I have a client who has about 65 production workers, with all kinds of backgrounds. They keep rather exact records, because it is the only way they be sure who is "checked out" on what operation. They don't do if for the registrar, or because ISO says so, but because necessity requires it.

That is why the standard is written so broadly. It is up to the organization to determine what records are appropriate and why.

Personally, I like to see more detailed training records. For some reason, there seems to be some psychological aspect to training records. I think employees like the comfort knowing where their boundries are and training records help establish those boundries. I could be wrong here, but that is the way it appears to me, working with a variety of different companies.
 

SteelMaiden

Super Moderator
Trusted Information Resource
#9
You don't have to sign off for training, but it's pretty hard to say that about the competency part of it. :2cents: two birds, and all that.
 

Randy

Super Moderator
#10
Yep, don't really care much about the training but I am interested in the evidence that required tasks can be performed as required by the individuals required to do them (Competency)
 
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