Training Requirements for ISO 9001:2015

Crusader

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I am just curious if these 2 documents will suffice for ISO 9001:2015. I've seen many records, forms, training matrix docs and I was just hoping to keep the current methods that are employed now. We do have a new hire orientation checklist that captures the bare basics including the QMS Policy, Objectives, etc. All docs combined meet ISO 9001:2008.

Your thoughts, opinions, please?
 

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Jen Kirley

Quality and Auditing Expert
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Re: Training Requirements for ISO 9001:2015 revision

The competency form would certainly work for me.

Job descriptions are common tools, but how would they help you deal with the risks associated with unexpected key persons not at work? What do you use to keep track of cross training, if any? How do you plan for backups? (all of these could be viewed as variants of the same question)
 
S

soldertraining

Re: Training Requirements for ISO 9001:2015 revision

Hey! I want to know that whether the IPC certification courses also came under ISO 9001: 2015 revision?
 

howste

Thaumaturge
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Re: Training Requirements for ISO 9001:2015 revision

Hey! I want to know that whether the IPC certification courses also came under ISO 9001: 2015 revision?

Training requirements have not been significantly changed in the new standard. Just like before, any product- or process-specific training will be defined by the organization.
 

Kronos147

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Re: Training Requirements for ISO 9001:2015 revision

I am just curious if these 2 documents will suffice for ISO 9001:2015... https://elsmar.com/Forums/showthread.php?t=69890#post591333
Your thoughts, opinions, please?

What I can't tell from these documents is the 'what, how, who, or when' training is/was conducted.

I am a fan of the matrix that shows names and specific training references. The cells are populated with dates of training.

If an organization does not train to specific references, how does it ensure training will be effective or be able to make corrections?

If the organization does not define specific training requirements, how does it measure the training program status?
 

Jen Kirley

Quality and Auditing Expert
Leader
Admin
Re: Training Requirements for ISO 9001:2015 revision

Great questions, Kronos147.

Organizational knowledge (7.1.6), along with competence (7.2a) ask us to determine what people need to be competent in, based on customer needs, and also risks and issues.

This information is usually sorted starting with organizational charts, and detailed in job descriptions. Auditors need to be aware, however, that neither of these things are required. Nor is a "skills library", another (a one page sheet is possible with a table, for smaller organizations or those with a lot of cross training, job sharing and/or needs for re-organizational flexibility) HR method of keeping track of competencies and identifying who can do what and any holes that exist or pop up, to meet with training.

Competency is a term we've discussed many times in the Cove. ISO 9000:2015 (3.10.4) defines competence as "ability to apply knowledge and skills to achieve intended results" which we can interpret to say "Do their work without errors." Errors can be detected by internal customers downstream (less costly, and we are asked to address that anyway in 8.7 nonconforming outputs) or end result (more costly, when we deal with corrective action based on customer satisfaction).

I do often see just a matrix with names on one axis and training items on the other, with dates of completion entered. This is documented information, and can work in an absence of clear issues with problems associated with people not doing their work properly.

Does this help?
 

Crusader

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Re: Training Requirements for ISO 9001:2015 revision

Thanks for all your input. I just hate to create mounds of paperwork. I guess we will stick with the matrix.
 

Kronos147

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Re: Training Requirements for ISO 9001:2015 revision

Does this help?

No. It would not help.

I'm always thinking about the whole system.

Example: the matrix says train an assembler "Assembly 101" every two years. Assembly 101 key points are added to a training form. Training is conducted, and logged on the matrix, and the training form is retained.

An NCR is discovered, a corrective action is launched, and the root cause assessment reviews records. If the root cause looks at training, you can see what training was conducted.

I understand the "train as you need" aspect too. If it ain't broke, why fix it, right?

I'm a believer that if you let the old hands in on the training, they may be able to contribute to the continual improvement of the training program.
 

Jen Kirley

Quality and Auditing Expert
Leader
Admin
Re: Training Requirements for ISO 9001:2015 revision

I see two different issues here: Knowledge Management and Corrective Action.

Can a matrix be used to help facilitate knowledge management? I think yes, as a matrix is an output of the considerations and the dates indicate completion of training. For recurring training, conditional formatting can be used to turn the cells a color if the dates exceed a =TODAY() formulated cell.

Competency is another thing of course. For this we so often question why training is a root cause. Why was the training not sufficient? Did the person decide to do his or her thing despite the training? Was there a change to the method and the person was not told? That isn't about training, it's change management. And so on.
 

Kronos147

Trusted Information Resource
Re: Training Requirements for ISO 9001:2015 revision

For this we so often question why training is a root cause.

I believe we think along similar lines.

I like to remove training as a root cause. It's a cop out. If there is a matrix and you are training to it, it makes it hard to stop at the "employee was not trained" based thinking.
 
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