Transition Audits - AS9100 Revision D

nagelbh

Starting to get Involved
#1
I'm new to AS9100, but I'm under the impression that since I will have a surveillance audit in July of 2017 that I need to implement Rev. D by that time since I will be audited to that rather than Rev. C. Is that correct?

If so, what does that say about my Rev. C certificate? Does it get updated to Rev. D, or will we just have a certificate for one revision and be audited to another? That seems odd to me at best.
 

sol49720

Starting to get Involved
#2
Not necessarily. When does your AS9100C certificate expire? Rev.C will not be recognized after September 2018. You will get your surveillance audit in 2017 performed to Rev.D and C, but if you have items don't conform C, you will to fix those. Now, if you had scheduled an update audit, it will be a full audit of the whole QMS and you will need to pass it. You should receive a form to complete (AS/EN 9100-series: 2016 Readiness Review) that needs to be completed and submitted to your registrar around 1 to 2 months before your audit, required, not an option. You should have a sign on for your registrar, you can download it from there if your registrar hasn't already provided it. I received a thumb-drive from my registrar with all kinds of guidance whitepapers, gap analysis, the readiness review form and other information.

Although this forum is an excellent place for asking questions and researching requirements, nothing replaces a phone call to your registrar, they have people on staff that can inform you of exactly what will happen at your surveillance audit and what you need to have in place before the audit.
 

nagelbh

Starting to get Involved
#3
Our certificate expires, conveniently enough, in September of 2018 (getting our money's worth :D ).

I'll check with my registrar, but it sounds like we should be audited to both rev. C and rev. D in our surveillance audits until our rev. C cert expires in 2018? And we would be required to address non-conformances to C that we're registered to, but not (yet) for D that we won't be registered to until our 2018 recertification audit?

IAQG seemed to be stating no further auditing to Rev. C past June 2017 which lead me to believe that we will be audited solely to Rev. D and have to resolve any non-conformances to it.

We have received some communications and guidance from our registrar, but I can't say that they clearly addressed this point, so I wanted to have some perspective before talking with them. I'm new to the company and AS9100 (my prior experience is all with ISO 9001) so I'm doing some catching up.
 

Sidney Vianna

Post Responsibly
Staff member
Super Moderator
#4
I'm new to AS9100, but I'm under the impression that since I will have a surveillance audit in July of 2017 that I need to implement Rev. D by that time since I will be audited to that rather than Rev. C. Is that correct?

If so, what does that say about my Rev. C certificate? Does it get updated to Rev. D, or will we just have a certificate for one revision and be audited to another? That seems odd to me at best.
As the IAQG already stipulated, all audits performed after June 15 2017 HAVE TO BE PERFORMED against Rev. D. So, your July 2017 audit will be used to "transition" your certification to Rev. D. Assuming the CB recommends your certification to be issued after that audit, it should have the same expiration date that your current certificate has.
 

howste

Thaumaturge
Moderator
#5
As the IAQG already stipulated, all audits performed after June 15 2017 HAVE TO BE PERFORMED against Rev. D. So, your July 2017 audit will be used to "transition" your certification to Rev. D. Assuming the CB recommends your certification to be issued after that audit, it should have the same expiration date that your current certificate has.
Mostly true, except in some cases with the text I colored blue. Since ISO 9001:2015 was released in September 2015 with a three-year transition, there should be no AS9100 certificates currently with an expiration date beyond September 2018 even though their three-year cycle may end beyond that date. The attached certificate is an example where their cycle ends in December 2018 but their certificate expires in September 2018. After their transition to Rev D their new certificate should have an expiration date in December 2018.
 

Attachments

BoardGuy

Quite Involved in Discussions
#6
Nagelbh another solution would be to change your audit date to before the June cutoff date to allow your organization additional time to refine your system to AS9100D requirements. Remember you are the client for the audit and are in the driver seat under ISO 17021-1, AS9101 and AS9104 Series requirements, not your registrar.
 

Sidney Vianna

Post Responsibly
Staff member
Super Moderator
#7
Mostly true, except in some cases with the text I colored blue. Since ISO 9001:2015 was released in September 2015 with a three-year transition, there should be no AS9100 certificates currently with an expiration date beyond September 2018 even though their three-year cycle may end beyond that date.
I was referring to the specific case of the OP, who mentioned
Our certificate expires, conveniently enough, in September of 2018 (getting our money's worth :D ).
In his case, assuming the July 2017 transition audit is done as part of an augmented annual surveillance audit, I understand the new AS9100 Rev. D certificate would keep the same expiry date as the current certificate. If, instead, they ask for the July 2017 assessment to be a stage-2 like, initial audit, the certificate would have a new, 3-year, validity. Isn't it?

Nagelbh another solution would be to change your audit date to before the June cutoff date to allow your organization additional time to refine your system to AS9100D requirements. Remember you are the client for the audit and are in the driver seat under ISO 17021-1, AS9101 and AS9104 Series requirements, not your registrar.
That assumes the AS registrars have this kind of flexibility. I suspect that, AS IN THE PAST, CB's will struggle to develop their auditing force to support this compressed transition period. The IAQG makes transition policies and the CB's are caught between such ambitious policies and their clients wishes....;)
 

howste

Thaumaturge
Moderator
#8
Mostly true, except in some cases with the text I colored blue. Since ISO 9001:2015 was released in September 2015 with a three-year transition, there should be no AS9100 certificates currently with an expiration date beyond September 2018 even though their three-year cycle may end beyond that date.
I was referring to the specific case of the OP, who mentioned
Our certificate expires, conveniently enough, in September of 2018 (getting our money's worth :D ).
In his case, assuming the July 2017 transition audit is done as part of an augmented annual surveillance audit, I understand the new AS9100 Rev. D certificate would keep the same expiry date as the current certificate. If, instead, they ask for the July 2017 assessment to be a stage-2 like, initial audit, the certificate would have a new, 3-year, validity. Isn't it?
My point is that currently a VERY large number of certificates have an expiration date of 9/15/2018 because CBs can't issue any dates later that that for AS9100 Rev C. If a company was issued a new AS9100 Rev C certificate today, its expiration date would be 9/15/2018. I suspect that the OP's certificate date and the end of their current three-year cycle may be different. If so, they may have a later expiration date for their AS9100 Rev D certificate than their current Rev C certificate.


That assumes the AS registrars have this kind of flexibility. I suspect that, AS IN THE PAST, CB's will struggle to develop their auditing force to support this compressed transition period. The IAQG makes transition policies and the CB's are caught between such ambitious policies and their clients wishes....;)
True. Most likely they will get a response that the CB's audit calendar that month is already full and they don't have auditors to support their request.
 

sunnycosta

Involved In Discussions
#9
SAE AS9101F QUALITY MANAGEMENT SYSTEMS – AUDIT REQUIREMENTS FOR AVIATION, SPACE AND DEFENSE ORGANIZATIONS
Standard by SAE International 2016-10-31.

Please note SAE AS9101F has been released on 31ST OCTOBER 2016. (Rev F).
 

nagelbh

Starting to get Involved
#10
My point is that currently a VERY large number of certificates have an expiration date of 9/15/2018 because CBs can't issue any dates later that that for AS9100 Rev C. If a company was issued a new AS9100 Rev C certificate today, its expiration date would be 9/15/2018. I suspect that the OP's certificate date and the end of their current three-year cycle may be different. If so, they may have a later expiration date for their AS9100 Rev D certificate than their current Rev C certificate.


True. Most likely they will get a response that the CB's audit calendar that month is already full and they don't have auditors to support their request.
They appear to be struggling to perform all of the audits needed. We struggled to even get our first surveillance audit scheduled for this year (we're on a 6-month cycle). Instead we ended up doing the full surveillance audits for the year together in May once they found an auditor with availability, so we now have until January for our transition audit.

Here's to hoping that by then the situation has improved, they have all of their auditors certified and available. Not holding my breath tho'. :cfingers:
 
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