Transition to AS9100 from ISO 9001 (Cost) - We are an Aerospace and Military Supplier

T

tammyabare

#1
We are an aerospace and military supplier currently registered to ISO. We design and develop.

Has anyone done a cost analysis for the transition from ISO to AS they care to share?

I've decided to initially certify to Rev B...
My Gap Analysis is complete and I've gotten a few quotes from registrars for actual assessments and audits. But the question would be (on average) the cost of additional labor (including documentation revisions etc.), additional departmental resources outside of quality and estimated time allocation.

:mg:
Thanks
Tammy
 
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DannyK

Trusted Information Resource
#2
Re: AS9100 VS ISO (Cost)

Hi Tammy,

I would encourage you to look at registering to AS9100 revision C instead of Rev. B
If you have an audit to As9100 revision B, you will have to receive the certificate before July 1, 2011.
With AS9100 registrations you need to have all findings cleared and reviewed as effective prior to receiving the certificate. It sometimes can take several months after your audit to receive the certificate.
After July 1, 2011, every AS9100 audit will be performed to revision C.
So you will have to make the necessary changes to revision C right after the initial audit to Rev. B.
 
#3
Re: AS9100 VS ISO (Cost)

We are an aerospace and military supplier currently registered to ISO. We design and develop.

Has anyone done a cost analysis for the transition from ISO to AS they care to share?

I've decided to initially certify to Rev B...
My Gap Analysis is complete and I've gotten a few quotes from registrars for actual assessments and audits. But the question would be (on average) the cost of additional labor (including documentation revisions etc.), additional departmental resources outside of quality and estimated time allocation.

:mg:
Thanks
Tammy
Tammy: If we're talking about the same 'scope' of certification, in other words your business is going to be doing basically the same thing for the customer, the changes should be very minimal. If you can tell us that it's 'just an upgrade' to AS9100, then that would help. If, of course you're adding/subtracting processes, locations etc. then it will take more. What does your gap tell you?
 

RCW

Quite Involved in Discussions
#4
Re: AS9100 VS ISO (Cost)

I agree with DannyK. I am currently working on implementing AS9100 and it didn't make sense to develop the Rev B system and then have to turn around a year later to do Rev C changes.

As far as a cost analysis, there are too many variables involved to give you accurate numbers. The amount of documentation would likely vary from my company to yours. The number of employees are likely different. The amount of resources and the availability of getting additional resources would also vary between companies.

Maybe somebody else here would have numbers, but to me it would be difficult to come up with something.
 
T

tammyabare

#5
Re: AS9100 VS ISO (Cost)

Andy, thanks!

We do not sub-contract. This is an "upgrade" from ISO to AS. What I'm mostly concerned about is costs (that may be hidden with my gap analysis) specifically for Design/Development and Supplier Control.
I'm hearing a lot of talk about Risk Assessment and this concerns me as well.
And was wondering if someone transitioning from ISO to AS did a cost analysis for the transition and if so, how accurate was this cost analysis when all said and done.

Make sense?



@ Danny, thanks for the info. Something to consider.
 
T

tammyabare

#6
Re: AS9100 VS ISO (Cost)

RCW
Agreed. However, I am looking for some sort of template they used. Then I can decide how that is applicable to what I'm trying to accomplish.
I'm looking for ballpark so I can at least "start" with something. Because I have nothing yet.;)
 

Sidney Vianna

Post Responsibly
Staff member
Admin
#7
Re: AS9100 VS ISO (Cost)

If you have an audit to As9100 revision B, you will have to receive the certificate before July 1, 2011.
Just a clarification: technically, an organization could have their stage 2 audit against Revision B of AS9100 in June 2011 and receive their certificate after July 1[sup]st[/sup], 2011. They would have to attain certification to Rev. C before July 1[sup]st[/sup], 2012, though.

That is, if the current IAQG transition timeframe policy holds true...:notme:
 
#8
Re: AS9100 VS ISO (Cost)

It is not possible to make a clear budget for the cost-you said hidden costs.In US the hidden costs are less as CBs quote for complete package including hotel and travel.You may consider costs for following
Documentation-It will depend on many factors i.e your existing quality management system,your process complexties,number of processes/functions,how big you are,your customer requirement etc.
Training-Again it will depend on many factors i.e whether you want to train your people on AS9100 requirement by using external consultant,in-house or sending out of company.
(If you have strong commitment to save cost,you can depend on the forum.I can assure you that you get better knowledge.Only thing to remember,you have to spend time)

Use of consultant-This is easy to calculate but you can avoid if you depend on the forum and have time.
Cost of your productive time-this is rally hidden and you have to give man-hours for understanding requirements,documentation,implementation,training,audits and attending external auditors.Very difficult to calculate the cost of time.

Some one who has records of all expenses for AS9100 certification may give better input but cost of time will be really hidden.
 
T

TamNguyen

#9
Re: Transition to AS9100 to ISO 9001 (Cost) - We are an Aerospace and Military Suppli

Hello guys,
First of all I wanna say hello to everyone here since this is my first post :).
I'm actually in the same situation here. My company is currently registered for ISO 9001, but now we want to upgrade to AS9100 rev C as soon as we can. We are basically a metal manufacturing services company, we have been doing many different types of work in medical, oil, and aerospace field. We also have our own engineering team to support our customer in modifying their designs in order to reduce production costs. However, as far as this point we still have not got any plan for designing our own products yet. The new plan of the company is to primarily focus in aerospace manufacturing and implementing AS9100C would be our first step to get into this.
So my question is what would you guys suggest where I start? I know there is a gap checklist to look for the differences between two systems but I really want to buy a whole package to have more general overview about AS9100. Here are some resources that I have found:
as9100-quality-system.com/#as9100upgradekit
as9100store.com/AS9100-compare-products.aspx
Do you guys think these sources could be any useful at all, if not then is there any other sources that you would recommend? Your help is greatly appreciated!

Tam
 

Randy

Super Moderator
#10
Re: Transition to AS9100 to ISO 9001 (Cost) - We are an Aerospace and Military Suppli

Cost of transition is relevant and has already been stated there are tons of variables. Cost is also like an iceberg in that you only see a small percentage above water and for the most part what you see can't hurt you.

Here's and example of below the waterline cost...How much time did you spend thinking of and making Post #1 of this Thread? Let's say the total time invested was originally 15 minutes. OK, next, what is your time worth per minute to your employer (Basic employee cost goes beyond salary, it includes among other thing your employers portion of your holiday pay, retirement benefits, insurance and all that other stuff...at least here in the USA). Way back when I was the President of our police union fighting the city for overtime, backpay and such I started using the factor of base salary X 1/3rd / 2080 = time value (2080 = 52 weeks X 40hrs or total hours)...Oh yeah the courts upheld our lawsuit and math during litigation.

OK, so for example if your time value to your employer is worth $100hr the 15 minutes you took had a below waterline cost of $25 or $1.66666 per minute.

So now imagine all the stuff that has to be done internally to allow for an effective transition. Depending upon the size of your organization, your organizational culture, the present status of your QMS in place and all kinds of other "stuff" in the form of "minutes". We are now talking serious lunch money. And hey, you haven't even talked to the registrar yet.

Here's reality, if the time for transition only required the efforts of 1 person for 1 standard work month (20 work days) at the $100 per hour rate above your cost would be $16,000.

Now is $100 per hour realistic? Maybe not, but is $50? Probably, but you'd still be looking at $8,000.

Think about it, everytime you have a "transition" meeting for 30 minutes with a 10 person team $50 per hr, that meeting costs at least $250. 1 meeting a week for a year could be about $13,000.......Now how many meetings actually last 30 minutes?Now you want todo some rough estimates on cost of writing procedures, training people, internal audits, management reviews, corrective-preventive actions and all that other cool stuff?

Is your system transition going to worth the investment and how long will it take to recapture it?
 
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