TS 16949:2002 - Error Proofing Column Required in Control Plan II

S

SilverHawk

#1
Error Proofing in Control Plan II

The CB auditor has rejected the Control Plan as described as Appendix J of QS-9000 QSR manual and insisted that for the TS 16949 Control Plan, there MUST an additional column for "Error Proofing" under the row, "Methods" according to Annex A of ISO/TS 16949:2002 manual.

Is she right ?
 
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S

SteelWoman

#2
Yes and no. The TS "Annex A" does include "error proofing" as one of the items that must be on your control plan, but it's listed as one of the "contents" of the control plan - I don't think you can take that and stretch it to mean it must be a whole separate column of it's own. On ours (take with a grain of salt because we're still several months from our upgrade audit) we put a footnote at the top of the control plan (if it's at the top is it still a footnote? A HEADnote? I digress...) that says Error Proofing steps in the control plan are marked as such with an "EP". Saved me the headache of trying to squeeze an extra column in an already crowded Control Plan.
 

Wes Bucey

Prophet of Profit
#3
SteelWoman said:
On ours (take with a grain of salt because we're still several months from our upgrade audit) we put a footnote at the top of the control plan (if it's at the top is it still a footnote? A HEADnote? I digress...) that says Error Proofing steps in the control plan are marked as such with an "EP". Saved me the headache of trying to squeeze an extra column in an already crowded Control Plan.
Sometimes, just "note" is enough, especially when you indicate where you put it on the page.
:topic: We ordered in pizza last night for a late meeting. There was a phrase on the box that perfectly embodied "error proofing" which took into account the general audience to whom it applied:
"Keep this box level, or you'll be eating pizza with a shovel."
 
A

Al Dyer

#4
As noted above, in no place of TS does it state that there must be a separate column for error proofing. :mad:

Sounds like a novice auditor, time to call the bluff and ask for proof that they are correct in their finding.:evidence:

As also noted though, error proofing must be defined in some part of the control plan.

Stand firm in the proper beliefs!!!

Al...
 
#5
Referring to A.2 Elements of the control plan; each item has a its own space or column. What would be different with error proofing.
Would the spec really need to note "add a separate column for error proofing" when it's described in the detail it is?
 
A

Al Dyer

#6
Sam said:
Referring to A.2 Elements of the control plan; each item has a its own space or column. What would be different with error proofing.
Would the spec really need to note "add a separate column for error proofing" when it's described in the detail it is?
Sam,

If I follow your logic according to A.2, we would all need 23 columns. Are we all that worried about format over content?:bigwave:
 
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#7
Al Dyer said:
Sam,

If I follow your logic according to A.2, we would all need 23 coulumns. Are we all that worried about format over content?:bigwave:
We've already got 21, what's a couple more between friends? :D

I hear you. My brain is still muddled. I just completed a combination 4 day TS2 surveillance and 14001 re-cert audit. I was interpreting the requirement through the eyes of our auditor.
 
S

SilverHawk

#8
As the CB auditor wanted us to put in the extra column and we knew that Control Plan is a living document. An error proofing has been identified and implemented. The next revision may not have the error proofing as we have already "put it is place". We asked the auditor how would be to have an "Error Proofing" column and there is nothing to fill up !

She inisisted that TS2 requirements is very clear about Annex A and we hav had to fill up "something" in this column. Period. There is no two ways about it. But ............... error proofing has been installled quite a while!!!
 

Courier

another day closer
#9
Error Proofing

I took it as adding a row not a column. In the row you could say like a sensor in a die checking for miss feeds or such and its checking 100% eveytime for a progression. hmmmm maybe we need more info on this cause i could be wrong too. :)
 
A

Al Dyer

#10
When all else fails, ask the customer what they want. A2 only says the information must be articulated, not in it's own column!:mad:

Al...:agree:
 
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