TS 16949 applicability for Bulk Material Product

[KnoKsuKaO]

Our company has certificate ISO/TS 16949 and ISO 9001/14001, but minimal requirements our customer is 9001 with plan on ISO/TS 16949..

And we deliver to customers who are TIR2 and TIR3, TIR1 is our only Iveco and CNH (buses and trucks).

TIR2 and TIR3 are HVCC - Visteon, ZF, KSR, Brano etc..

Unfortunately, in some cases, they want our customers to be our subcontractors and TS certified as required transfer request, and in some cases impossible.

 

[Greg_F]

We are supplying bulk liquids directly to the OEM. And yes our company is TS16949 certified. We claim exemption to 7.3 (except the manufacturing part) because we do not design the product from the idea up to OEM approval. What is your question?

I am wondering how you perform Design-FMEAs, MSA, First part inspection, SPC and the other things required in a PPAP submission for material you ship to numerous customers. Or in other word whre do you see the added value in doing so.

 

[KnoKsuKaO]

Design FMEA is not applicable because they haven’t 7.3, but SPC and MSA is applicable.
For example, the results of the final test.

 

[LUV-d-4UM]

SPC is done in the QA Laboratory. MSA is not the 10 parts 3 operator and 3 repeats kid of thing. We use the Interlaboratory Correlation Scheme qualification based on the Z scores. Any score below 100% needs a corrective action. It is acceptable by the customer because it is traceable to an ISO and ASTM method. All our tests methods are based on ASTM so we do not use the Nested Anova Gage R&R.

And yes, Design is excluded.

 

[KnoKsuKaO]

Surely it is then up to the agreement, because the required nonsensical things, just because it's a requirement and it does not add any value is terrible.

 

[LUV-d-4UM]

The intent of MSA is to demonstrate equipment performance and operator skill. And the MSA edition is only there as reference. The bulk MSA we used is traceable to ASTM and the IUPAC. We had a problem before but it took several audits to convince the auditor because they are used to the Nested Anova gagf R&R and that has no value to us.

 

[KnoKsuKaO]

yes totally agree with you

 

[LUV-d-4UM]

Thanks. The SPC tool we used for the lab is the individual moving range chart.

 

[outoftown]

My understanding would be the nested ANOVA would be appropriate for a destructive type test, as you may do with tensile or elongation, melt index, or wherever the same sample may not have repeatable results.

To the original question, PPAP does include bulk material supplier forms. If you impact the end use vehicle, it is likely even if you pursue ISO 9001 instead, your customer may still have to develop you to TS requirements and you will still have to do FMEAs, Control Plans, MSA, statistical techniques (not necessarily SPC), and other TS mentioned requirements. Best thing to do is find out from your customer if you have to have TS.

 

[LUV-d-4UM]

I agree.