TS 16949 Clause 7.4.1.2 and Sanctioned Interpretation

T

thsiao

#1
I had a quick question regarding 7.4.1.2 and the sanctioned interpretation (SI) and was hoping someone could clarify. The standard itself says that the suppliers need to be ISO 9001 certified. However, the SI says that they can be ISO 9001 certified or have a second party audit process as the first step to achieve the goal to be conforming to the TS. The SI does not specifically state that suppliers need to be ISO 9001 certified like the standard does. So do suppliers need to be ISO 9001 certified or not?

On this same note, how do we treat suppliers that are offering “off the shelve” products to us? Does the standard still expect them to be ISO 9001 certified? Or can we say that these suppliers fall into the “specially designated small suppliers” and we can waive most elements of the standard?

Thanks!
 
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howste

Thaumaturge
Super Moderator
#2
The SI states that second party audits are an alternative for certification, so no you don't necessarily need them to be ISO 9001 certified. If they aren't certified though, your organization would need to audit them.

You may also want to look at the SI bullet point that says:
The organization shall have decision criteria for determining “specially designated small suppliers” wherein certain specified elements of ISO9001:2008 or ISO/TS 16949:2009 may be waived. Records of the established criteria and decision taken accordingly shall be maintained. “Small” here above may refer to the volume supplied to the automotive industry or to the organization.
This SI clause would also allow you to waive the certification requirement in some cases.
 
T

thsiao

#3
The SI states that second party audits are an alternative for certification, so no you don't necessarily need them to be ISO 9001 certified. If they aren't certified though, your organization would need to audit them.

You may also want to look at the SI bullet point that says:

This SI clause would also allow you to waive the certification requirement in some cases.
Does a self-assessment from the supplier using our forms qualify as a "second party audit"?
 

howste

Thaumaturge
Super Moderator
#4
Does a self-assessment from the supplier using our forms qualify as a "second party audit"?
Here's what the SI says about 2nd party audits:
The organization’s second party audit process shall be consistent with the automotive process approach, including evidence of planning, supplier readiness and supplier performance. The organization shall demonstrate the competence of the auditors undertaking the 2nd party audits. Records of the audits reports shall be maintained.
Note: Guidance can be found in the IATF Auditor Guide, ISO 17021 and ISO 19011
No, a self-assessment wouldn't work.
 
#5
How has IATF16949 affected this SI? Are "specially designated small suppliers" still given some flexibility, or do the IATF16949 requirements no longer allow for them?
 
#8
Thanks to both of you for the replies. I also thought that perhaps the SI might be embedded into the new IATF16949 standard, but I did not see any mention of special allowances for small suppliers. The intent of the SI from TS16949 may have been to allow for small mom-pop shops or those that service the disabled. I was surprised not to see any verbiage to account for them and was wondering if this means there are no longer any allowances permitted to accomodate such small suppliers. I'm hoping this is not the case, but if anyone has any insight to this one way or another, that would be helpful.

Thanks again for the prompt replies.
 
#9
This is a follow-up to the posts regarding special allowances for small suppliers. Has anyone heard any updates relative to this?
 

jfries2

Involved In Discussions
#10
The SI from TS language about specially designated small suppliers was not incorporated into IATF 16949. But there is still the option of customer authorization to continue with an ISO 2nd party audit compliance approach (IATF 8.4.2.3). An organization could appeal to the customer to waive ISO and ultimately IATF certification based on a supplier's size, automotive business mix, etc. As long as the customer authorization is documented, this should be acceptable.
 
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