TS 16949 Clause 7.4.1.2 - Customers not requiring TS 16949

[Elizabeth]

Hi,
We have a slight dilemma, regarding 7.4.1.2. We have been searching hi and lo for iso certified suppliers for a new process we are using - and we aren't having much luck. The supplier we are hoping to deal with (and is the most capable) is not certified, and has no plans to be. Our customer likely will not give us a signed waiver, they don't care about TS and don't want to sign anything that could tie them up in it. So, as we are looking to be TS certified at the end of the year (as req'd by other customers) - what can we do? Rather than a signed waiver, would a statement somehow relaying they want good products, and it is our discretion as how we get them?
Thanks

 

[The Taz!]

Here we go again. . .

This has popped up in several threads over the past week. What I suggested, and will here, is to DOCUMENT your conversations with your customer. . .you have no control over them. . . control what you can control. . .

I would however, do your due diligence and audit the new supplier to determine where they stand . . . that will give you some sort of a sense of what the future will hold. . . and you have satisfied what you DO have control over.

If the supplier is a small place that does not have the resources to implement a full blown QMS, the automotive Customer Specific Requirements on the IAOB web site (IAOB.ORG) gives relief in that area. It does however state that customer approval is required where the supplier will significantly affect product quality.

You have a paradox. . . catch 22. . . but again, DOCUMENT the conversations with the customer and any auditor should give you a pat on the back.

Good luck.

 

[bpritts]

I agree with Taz, with one additional suggestion.

Consider developing your own "Customer Specific Requirements" for the
non-TS subscribing customer. Document your own policy on which aspects
of the quality system will be followed as is, and which you choose to modify.

I doubt that this particular element would be the only item that a non-
TS customer would choose to waive (if they wrote waivers!)

Use your documentation of the customer's conversations as the backup
for these requirements.

And, as Taz suggests, do appropriate "due diligence" of the process supplier,
so that you know what to reasonably expect of their performance.

Best regards,
Brad

 

[richard b. thomas]

7.4.1.2 Supplier quality management system development

My OEM's do not require our suppliers to be ISO or TS Certified.

It is my understanding from a conversation that I had recently with our CB Auditor, that this clause of the standard doesn't require suppliers to be TS 16949:2002 Certified (it's a goal not a requirment). ISO 9001:2000 is required of all the organization's suppliers within 3 years of the organizations certification to TS 16949:2002.

Evidence of prioritization of suppliers for development and certification status must be current and available during the assessment. Again, the overall goal of supplier development is for all suppliers to become TS Certified (if required by the OEM). Some may not have the resources to so. If the organization can show evidence of the supplier's capability (quality and delivery data is acceptable), and evidence of development activities, compliance has been met.

My CB Auditor, also stated that he/she would accept evidence that I have tried to obtain waivers from my customer, since they insist that ISO or TS Certification is not required for my supplier but won't give me a formal waiver. My letter and/or e-mail needs to identify the suppliers in question and ask for a formal response. If I receive no response, the auditor is willing to accept that neither ISO or TS Certification of my suppliers isn't required.

I have heard the authors of TS state on a number of occassions "that all suppliers must have a TS certified systems" this contradicts how this clause is being audited. I believe that in most cases the OEM's are not going to stop doing business with your organization because your suppliers do not have certified quality management systems. It always comes down to initial price, quality and cost-downs upon request.

 

[Sam]

Hi,
We have a slight dilemma, regarding 7.4.1.2. We have been searching hi and lo for iso certified suppliers for a new process we are using - and we aren't having much luck. The supplier we are hoping to deal with (and is the most capable) is not certified, and has no plans to be. Our customer likely will not give us a signed waiver, they don't care about TS and don't want to sign anything that could tie them up in it. So, as we are looking to be TS certified at the end of the year (as req'd by other customers) - what can we do? Rather than a signed waiver, would a statement somehow relaying they want good products, and it is our discretion as how we get them?
Thanks

The certification process applies only to customers subscribing to the certification to ISO/TS 16949:2002.
If your customer has NOT imposed TS on your company, then the requirements of the specification do NOT apply.
Your registrar/auditor can only audit those customers who impose the specification.

 

[Elizabeth]

Thanks all for your reply.

Sam - I didn't know that, could you tell me where that information is found? Thanks!

 

[Sam]

Elizabeth,
Refer to the "Automotive Certification Scheme for ISO/TS 16949:2002 Rules for achieving IATF recognition", para. 1.5.
Available from AIAG.

 

[Elizabeth]

perfect!

does anyone know where i can find a list of companies that are subscribing to TS?

 

[ralphsulser]

Not sure a list currently exists beyond the obvious big auto companies. But I can tell you that Visteon does, and issued CSRs in Jan. '04

 

[Sam]

perfect!

does anyone know where i can find a list of companies that are subscribing to TS?

DCX also posted the CSR's for Mercedes Benz. Which looks to be an absolute nightmare.