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TS 16949 Clause 7.6 Control of Monitoring and Measuring Devices

R

Rae Xu

#1
7.6 control of monitoring and measuring devices

what is the difference between monitoring device and measuring device?If there is a device such as thermometer on the production equipment, not on the inspection instrument, what kind of device it is?
 
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S

SilverHawk

#2
Only measuring device has two factors - the reading and the user. For that rasional, only measuring device is called for GR & R.

Whereas the monitoriuing device has one factor - that's only giving the reading. So not GR & R is required... but to whether the monitoring device need calibration. look into the degree of usage..
 
S
#3
If the "monitoring" device" has an affect on the quality of the product, it requires calibration.
 
S

SteelWoman

#4
It depends on what the device is doing for you and what you use the results for. We have some inline/continuous monitoring devices that an operator can kind of keep an eye on to see if, for instance, the thickness of the sheet passing through is going haywire, but in the end we use standard micrometers and such to record the actual readings of the thickness that then get recorded as our final product characteristic. We R&R the micrometers, but not the isotope monitoring device.
 
J

jbGUERRA

#5
Calibration under 7.6 Control of monitoring and measuring devices section (a)

During a supplier audit I found the supplier with gage pins that were not being sent out for calibration. The suppliers response, "we send out our gage blocks for calibration which is used to calibrate our calipers which we use the certify the gage pins." My question, is this acceptable?

jbG.
 
D

D.Scott

#6
Welcome to the Cove.

7.6 (a) states measuring equipment shall "be calibrated or verified at specified intervals, or prior to use, against measurement standards traceable to international or national standards"

As long as the gage blocks are traceable to (example) NIST, the supplier could establish a working standard (the calipers) then verify the pins with that standard. IMHO, if the pins weren't verified before every use using the working standard, I would expect to see them listed in the calibration records showing the frequency of verification along with the other calibration records. BTW, the uncertainties for each of the gages is accumulative back to the NIST standard and should be considered when judging the effectiveness of their verification. It could be possible after stacking uncertainties that the pins become unsuitable for the measurement being done.

I would not, if the supplier's calibration method is suitable/effective and can be confirmed, expect them to send out the pins for calibration. There is no requirement to send a gage "out" although that is the readily accepted method of establishing traceability.

Dave

Dave
 
J

jbGUERRA

#7
7.6

Based on your response the supplier would be accountable for the condition of each gage pin and its frequency of use to determine wear per their gage calibration report, correct? I would question the suppliers’ ability to certify the accuracy of the gage pins when they don't have an accredited laboratory environment that complies to IEC17025. Would I be out of line to issue them a Corrective Action based on my lack of confidence in them because they push the envelope of interpretation for this element?
 

Jim Wynne

Staff member
Admin
#8
jbGUERRA said:
Based on your response the supplier would be accountable for the condition of each gage pin and its frequency of use to determine wear per their gage calibration report, correct? I would question the suppliers’ ability to certify the accuracy of the gage pins when they don't have an accredited laboratory environment that complies to IEC17025. Would I be out of line to issue them a Corrective Action based on my lack of confidence in them because they push the envelope of interpretation for this element?
It all depends on the measurements. If the pins are being used for measurements that are beyond the sensitivity of the standards used to calibrate them, then there's an obvious problem. On the other hand, in many cases the calibration process for pins involves not much more than cleaning and checking for damage that might affect measurements. In every case, before a gage is selected for use someone needs to verify that the gage is appropriately sensitive and that the standards used to calibrate it were as well.
 
G

gaugefixer

#9
jbGUERRA said:
Based on your response the supplier would be accountable for the condition of each gage pin and its frequency of use to determine wear per their gage calibration report, correct? I would question the suppliers’ ability to certify the accuracy of the gage pins when they don't have an accredited laboratory environment that complies to IEC17025. Would I be out of line to issue them a Corrective Action based on my lack of confidence in them because they push the envelope of interpretation for this element?
Are you trying to bankrupt your supplier? Sending out a gauge pin library to an ISO 17025 lab to have them calibrated would probably cost them just as much as a new set. These are gauge pins (which usually have a tolerance of .0002") that can be measured with a mic and compared to gauge blocks with a mic.
You do not nbeed to have an "accredited 17025 lab environment" to measure gauge pins and compare them to traceable calibrated gauge blocks.
If i was too have no confidence in a suppliers methods of calibrating gauge pins with .0002" tolerance; then i doubt the'yd be able to calibrate anything.
 
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