TS 16949 Compliant Control Plans - Does every item need a record?

S

s-bell

#1
We have recently been through a TS audit and we were pulled over our control plans.
I've checked through forums on the cove and examples of control plans I've seen have been similar to my own.

Our auditor was looking at a generic control plan for a pressed part, this control plan ran from goods in to despatch and covers all jobs ran on the machine. In order to achieve this a list of all part numbers is referenced on the control plan and specifications refer to Inspection Standards, Material requirements refer to works orders etc. This enables us to keep a generic document covering all parts manufactured off the same process.

The auditor declared that this was not acceptable and that specific tolerances should be input, this however in my opinion prevents us from managing a generic system. My thoughts are with a process control plan is that it is for controlling a process, not a part! At present I refer to the Part Inspection sheet which defines the tolerance and what it should be measured with (Gauge ref / vernier etc).

In the control plan there were also references to work that is performed but not recorded. I.e. checking that a coil of material is central on a decoiling reel before feeding into rollers. I was advised to remove anything from the control plan that is not recorded. However we use the plan for the development of Standard Ops and training, this is defined as a key item and is a necessary part of the process, we don't record we are doing it but do check during process audits.

Does it sound as though I'm doing things right and I've had a bad auditor or am I completely missing the point on something. I have been praised by previous auditors on my Control Plans under QS9000, surely the bar has not moved so much with TS?
 
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B

Bill Ryan - 2007

#2
My first question is: Have your customers balked at your approach?

Second question is: Does your system work for you?

My first reaction is to say that it sounds as though your auditor is trying to dictate the format as he likes it done - without regard for whether the system is working or not. I don't see a problem with your approach, however, it still has the detail your auditor is looking for - just in a different medium (ie: separate Inspection Instuctions, Work Instuctions, et.).

Personally, I prefer to keep the PFMEA generic but the Control Plan part specific (but that could just my "analness" showing :rolleyes: )

Please keep us informed as this plays out.
 
Last edited by a moderator:

Jim Wynne

Staff member
Admin
#3
s-bell said:
We have recently been through a TS audit and we were pulled over our control plans.
I've checked through forums on the cove and examples of control plans I've seen have been similar to my own.

Our auditor was looking at a generic control plan for a pressed part, this control plan ran from goods in to despatch and covers all jobs ran on the machine. In order to achieve this a list of all part numbers is referenced on the control plan and specifications refer to Inspection Standards, Material requirements refer to works orders etc. This enables us to keep a generic document covering all parts manufactured off the same process.

The auditor declared that this was not acceptable and that specific tolerances should be input, this however in my opinion prevents us from managing a generic system. My thoughts are with a process control plan is that it is for controlling a process, not a part! At present I refer to the Part Inspection sheet which defines the tolerance and what it should be measured with (Gauge ref / vernier etc).

In the control plan there were also references to work that is performed but not recorded. I.e. checking that a coil of material is central on a decoiling reel before feeding into rollers. I was advised to remove anything from the control plan that is not recorded. However we use the plan for the development of Standard Ops and training, this is defined as a key item and is a necessary part of the process, we don't record we are doing it but do check during process audits.

Does it sound as though I'm doing things right and I've had a bad auditor or am I completely missing the point on something. I have been praised by previous auditors on my Control Plans under QS9000, surely the bar has not moved so much with TS?
As long as you control plans reference the work instructions where the specifications and tolerances are controlled, then you should be OK. As far as removing things from the CP that don't result in records, there is no basis in the standard for the finding, and I would contest it. You are to be commended for recognizing that it is indeed a process control plan, not an inspection plan, and you shouldn't hesitate to educate your auditor on this principle.
 

Howard Atkins

Forum Administrator
Staff member
Admin
#4
Mr

I see no problem at all and as said there seems to be a problem with the auditor.
I would suggest that:
Annex A ISO/TS 16949 said:
Each part shall have a control plan but, in many cases, family control plans may cover a number of similar parts produced using a common process. Control plans are an output of the quality plan.
covers the issue.
It further says "specification/tolerance" if the relevant document is referenced then the specification exists
 
#5
Regarding second part, it is not necessary to remove the things which can not be rcorded. we can remain this and can mention in control method-"not Recorded"

vinay
 
S

s-bell

#6
Thants for the replies, our customer has never raised this issue before and is happy with our control plans. This was mentioned to the auditor and that no issue had been picked up on QS9000 audits.

We recieved a Major Non Conformance for this issue and when reviewing and applying the auditors reccomendations we end up with a shortened control plan but one that does not cover our full process.

I'm going to fight my corner on this, our customer is happy, our control plans allow us to audit processes clearly and fully and being generic in the area I work in allow me to ensure that all processes are controlled in the same manner. An improvement to one control plan would affect every component.

Thanks again :thanks:
 
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