TS 16949 'Flow Down' to every supplier?

L

Laura M

#1
TS for everyone?

I heard a horrible statement yesterday. A registration auditor doing an ISO9001 audit said that TS will be for EVERYONE in the automotive food chain. Since TS specifically states that suppliers to a TS company shall be ISO9001, I challenged the statement. His follow up was - "you wait and see, the Tier 1's will have the option of telling Tier 2's, and everyone will just tell their suppliers." Almost like a "if I have to, you have to" with no other rational thinking behind it.

In addition, the registration guidelines for TS makes it almost 3X more expensive. Are smaller shops really going to get anything out of it? Does the automotive food chain really think a small shop of 38 people will increase the product quality by doing TS instead of ISO. ISO has been seen as value added for most of my shops. I have a hard time seeing the incremental value add that TS would bring. I think this unnecessary requirement will force small shops right out of the automotive and the price of auto even farther through the roof.

Since I've heard otherwise, I hope this guy was just dabbling in bad rumors. I did have another registrar say, unless the customer specifically requires, ISO9001 is fine. I guess its whether or not the Tier 1's are too lazy to understand the impact and just say - TS for everyone.
 
Elsmar Forum Sponsor
T

tattva

#2
Actually specification says that:

" Unless otherwise specified by the customer, suppliers to the organization shall be third party registeres to ISO 9001:2000 by an accredited CB.

So if customer specifies it is not to be certified in TS-2 I think there´s no problem.

Actually we have a label supplier who is not certified and our customers agreed there was no problem:rolleyes:
 
#3
His follow up was - "you wait and see, the Tier 1's will have the option of telling Tier 2's, and everyone will just tell their suppliers." Almost like a "if I have to, you have to" with no other rational thinking behind it.
Thinking back on some of the things I've heard from QS, I think some of this might be; "I really don't know the rules, but here is what I think." I am amazed of the number of folks from the B3 that don't know the rules, yet they pass down what they "think" are the rules to their suppliers. TS will prove to be no different, I think.

The key might be to challenge the customer to "prove" that you have to be TS. Good luck!
 
L

Laura M

#4
Tattva - yes, I agree, but I'm worried about the "unless otherwise specified" thinking the Teir 1's will specify it with no further thinking involved.

db - Thanks - I will challange if any of my clients get the letter, but they are usually just pawns forwarding corporate statements. Sometimes hard to get to the real decision maker.

Onward ho!
 
T

tomvehoski

#5
From what I have seen many small shops WANT the TS certificate over the ISO. They think it will give a sales advantage over companies that "Just have ISO".

If they already do and are required to do APQP, PPAP, etc., I think that TS is the logical choice since the additional major requirements are useful. If they are going to try to fake APQP just to get the TS cert, I recommend ISO.

Tom
 
T

tattva

#6
If they are going to try to fake APQP just to get the TS cert, I recommend ISO.
I agree with this issue, but I don´t see the point in doing something fake in the means of obtaining the certification.


Laura:

Yes you,re right, but I´d like to think we´re dealing with people who have brain and their cells " do the connection " if you know what I mean.


:bonk:
 
S

Stan Sobota - 2011

#7
Not for all!

Please check the FAQ's at the IAOB site http://www.iaob.org - Link Was: /wording_publication.htm which specifies the organizations that can be certified to TS16949:2000.

Basically "applicable to sites of the organization where production and/or service parts specified by the customer are manufactured."

The terms "site" and the meaning of "manufacture" are somewhat specific.
 
A

Al Dyer

#8
The same general question has been around for years starting before ISO-9000 was issued. It has gone from ISO 1,2,3 to QS 1,2,3 to TS,1,2.

Every few years a new nomenclature for standards arises and becomes the new and approved system. My guess is that the next system of the day will be a combination of TS and ISO14000 called TOSS 9000.

Down to the gist, automotive will use any standard as they see fit. Which includes waivers, turned heads, and CYA's. Their concern is to get the product out the door while keeping quality at the highest level they can afford.

Al...:bigwave:
 
Thread starter Similar threads Forum Replies Date
B Supplier Development - TS 16949 Flow Down Requirements - Tier 2 Supplier IATF 16949 - Automotive Quality Systems Standard 13
D TS 16949 requirement - Requirements flow down to suppliers? IATF 16949 - Automotive Quality Systems Standard 2
A IATF 16949 Cl. 8.3.5.2 e) - Manufacturing Process Flow Charts & Layout IATF 16949 - Automotive Quality Systems Standard 5
R ISO/TS 16949:2009 Questions related to Work Flow IATF 16949 - Automotive Quality Systems Standard 1
D Definition Synchronous Material Flow - TS 16949 Clause 6.3.1 Definitions, Acronyms, Abbreviations and Interpretations Listed Alphabetically 7
M Linking Process Flow Charts, FMEAS and Control Plans for TS 16949 FMEA and Control Plans 4
S Procedure as per TS 16949 - Consultant changed text procedure to flow chart Document Control Systems, Procedures, Forms and Templates 49
O Example Risk Analysis Procedure or Flow Chart - TS 16949 Document Control Systems, Procedures, Forms and Templates 2
S TS 16949 Clause 4.1: COPs (Customer Oriented Processes) and Process Flow IATF 16949 - Automotive Quality Systems Standard 14
D Preparing for IATF 16949 Letter of Conformance Stage 1 audit IATF 16949 - Automotive Quality Systems Standard 4
D Is it required to have the operator initial their work in the IATF 16949:2016 standard? IATF 16949 - Automotive Quality Systems Standard 3
X IATF 16949 Section 3.2 Change of ownership IATF 16949 - Automotive Quality Systems Standard 2
Sidney Vianna Tesla Lacks Major Automotive Quality Certifications such as IATF 16949 and ISO 9001 IATF 16949 - Automotive Quality Systems Standard 15
W Looking for IATF 16949 (and ISO 17025) QMS software Suggestions Quality Tools, Improvement and Analysis 8
Sidney Vianna IATF 16949 News IATF News - Top 10 IATF 16949 nonconformities and more..... IATF 16949 - Automotive Quality Systems Standard 7
B IATF 16949 clause 10.2 - requirements following a customer complaint. IATF 16949 - Automotive Quality Systems Standard 9
C IATF 16949:2016 Major NC pertaining to 7.1.5.2.1 Calibration/verification records IATF 16949 - Automotive Quality Systems Standard 15
R How many process maps are adequate for a company for IATF 16949? Process Maps, Process Mapping and Turtle Diagrams 17
O IATF 16949 News Upcoming Changes to IATF 16949? IATF 16949 - Automotive Quality Systems Standard 4
V IATF 16949 GM CSR 10.2.4 Error-proofing requirement IATF 16949 - Automotive Quality Systems Standard 2
D IATF 16949 Clause 7.2.2 - On the job training IATF 16949 - Automotive Quality Systems Standard 2
L IATF 16949 8.3 Exclusions Manufacturing and Related Processes 5
H Clause matrix for 16949 IATF 16949 - Automotive Quality Systems Standard 3
D IATF 16949 7.3.1 Awareness- Supplemental IATF 16949 - Automotive Quality Systems Standard 2
Q IATF 16949 8.4.2.4 Supplier Monitoring IATF 16949 - Automotive Quality Systems Standard 2
J Implementation, establishment and certification of IATF 16949. IATF 16949 - Automotive Quality Systems Standard 6
xfngrs 3 year audit cycle IATF 16949 IATF 16949 - Automotive Quality Systems Standard 10
D IATF 16949 Process Map IATF 16949 - Automotive Quality Systems Standard 19
Vader22 IATF 16949 extended manufacturing site help IATF 16949 - Automotive Quality Systems Standard 4
D IATF 16949 Certification and Letter of Conformance expiry (Help!!!) IATF 16949 - Automotive Quality Systems Standard 8
D AS9100 VS IATF 16949 AS9100, IAQG, NADCAP and Aerospace related Standards and Requirements 4
Ashland78 Need IATF 16949 ISO Gap Analysis Excel File Internal Auditing 3
T Justification of "Design Excluded" in IATF 16949 Design and Development of Products and Processes 5
Sidney Vianna Job Opening in the USA - IATF 16949 Lead Auditor Position Job Openings, Consulting and Employment Opportunities 0
Ron Rompen IATF 16949 8.5.1.4 IATF 16949 - Automotive Quality Systems Standard 7
P IATF 16949:2016 Letter of conformity IATF 16949 - Automotive Quality Systems Standard 5
D IATF 16949 SI 10, External non-accredited lab IATF 16949 - Automotive Quality Systems Standard 4
S IATF 16949 - Summary at a glance Clause wise - changes from ISO TS IATF 16949 - Automotive Quality Systems Standard 4
T IATF 16949 Recording inspection results IATF 16949 - Automotive Quality Systems Standard 2
S IATF 16949 Supplier selection criteria 8.4.1.2 IATF 16949 - Automotive Quality Systems Standard 5
D IATF 16949 M&TE Laboratory scope IATF 16949 - Automotive Quality Systems Standard 7
M IATF 16949 SI # 10: Integrated self-calibration of measurement equipment- Needs for explanation IATF 16949 - Automotive Quality Systems Standard 2
Q ISO 9001/IATF 16949 Audit Finding Question - Document Retention IATF 16949 - Automotive Quality Systems Standard 11
J IATF 16949 Calibration/Verification records question ISO 26262 - Road vehicles – Functional safety 6
D Bulk Materials (Greases) and IATF 16949 IATF 16949 - Automotive Quality Systems Standard 11
J IATF 16949 Internal Audit question - Auditor's responsibility Internal Auditing 6
S IATF 16949 Internal Audit Example IATF 16949 - Automotive Quality Systems Standard 20
B Remote IATF 16949 audit preparation General Auditing Discussions 10
R IATF 16949 Certification for new site with transferred product--what is the impact with CSR and scorecards? IATF 16949 - Automotive Quality Systems Standard 4
B IATF 16949 Cert Expire- New certification body IATF 16949 - Automotive Quality Systems Standard 5

Similar threads

Top Bottom