TS 16949 'Flow Down' to every supplier?

[Laura M]

TS for everyone?

I heard a horrible statement yesterday. A registration auditor doing an ISO9001 audit said that TS will be for EVERYONE in the automotive food chain. Since TS specifically states that suppliers to a TS company shall be ISO9001, I challenged the statement. His follow up was - "you wait and see, the Tier 1's will have the option of telling Tier 2's, and everyone will just tell their suppliers." Almost like a "if I have to, you have to" with no other rational thinking behind it.

In addition, the registration guidelines for TS makes it almost 3X more expensive. Are smaller shops really going to get anything out of it? Does the automotive food chain really think a small shop of 38 people will increase the product quality by doing TS instead of ISO. ISO has been seen as value added for most of my shops. I have a hard time seeing the incremental value add that TS would bring. I think this unnecessary requirement will force small shops right out of the automotive and the price of auto even farther through the roof.

Since I've heard otherwise, I hope this guy was just dabbling in bad rumors. I did have another registrar say, unless the customer specifically requires, ISO9001 is fine. I guess its whether or not the Tier 1's are too lazy to understand the impact and just say - TS for everyone.

 

[tattva]

Actually specification says that:

" Unless otherwise specified by the customer, suppliers to the organization shall be third party registeres to ISO 9001:2000 by an accredited CB.

So if customer specifies it is not to be certified in TS-2 I think there´s no problem.

Actually we have a label supplier who is not certified and our customers agreed there was no problem

 

[db]

His follow up was - "you wait and see, the Tier 1's will have the option of telling Tier 2's, and everyone will just tell their suppliers." Almost like a "if I have to, you have to" with no other rational thinking behind it.

Thinking back on some of the things I've heard from QS, I think some of this might be; "I really don't know the rules, but here is what I think." I am amazed of the number of folks from the B3 that don't know the rules, yet they pass down what they "think" are the rules to their suppliers. TS will prove to be no different, I think.

The key might be to challenge the customer to "prove" that you have to be TS. Good luck!

 

[Laura M]

Tattva - yes, I agree, but I'm worried about the "unless otherwise specified" thinking the Teir 1's will specify it with no further thinking involved.

db - Thanks - I will challange if any of my clients get the letter, but they are usually just pawns forwarding corporate statements. Sometimes hard to get to the real decision maker.

Onward ho!

 

[tomvehoski]

From what I have seen many small shops WANT the TS certificate over the ISO. They think it will give a sales advantage over companies that "Just have ISO".

If they already do and are required to do APQP, PPAP, etc., I think that TS is the logical choice since the additional major requirements are useful. If they are going to try to fake APQP just to get the TS cert, I recommend ISO.

Tom

 

[tattva]

If they are going to try to fake APQP just to get the TS cert, I recommend ISO.

I agree with this issue, but I don´t see the point in doing something fake in the means of obtaining the certification.


Laura:

Yes you,re right, but I´d like to think we´re dealing with people who have brain and their cells " do the connection " if you know what I mean.

 

[Stan Sobota - 2011]

Not for all!

Please check the FAQ's at the IAOB site https://www.iaob.org - Link Was: /wording_publication.htm which specifies the organizations that can be certified to TS16949:2000.

Basically "applicable to sites of the organization where production and/or service parts specified by the customer are manufactured."

The terms "site" and the meaning of "manufacture" are somewhat specific.

 

[Al Dyer]

The same general question has been around for years starting before ISO-9000 was issued. It has gone from ISO 1,2,3 to QS 1,2,3 to TS,1,2.

Every few years a new nomenclature for standards arises and becomes the new and approved system. My guess is that the next system of the day will be a combination of TS and ISO14000 called TOSS 9000.

Down to the gist, automotive will use any standard as they see fit. Which includes waivers, turned heads, and CYA's. Their concern is to get the product out the door while keeping quality at the highest level they can afford.

Al...