TS 16949 Internal Auditor Requirements

S

Steven Truchon

#1
TS Internal Auditor Requirements

Based on my review of the TS spec, it is my understanding that the qualifications for internal auditors for TS is something which is defined by the organization as long as competance can be documented and demonstrated. I for one happen to like the flexibility this implies. I am hearing from some folks in our corporate organization that our internal auditors need to be "certified" by someone or an organization "certified" to administer the training. I disagree with this as a stand-alone concept based on my understanding of the TS spec.

I am curious what the consensus is regarding this issue.

Thanks!
Steve :smokin:
 
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M

Mike Smith

#2
Customer Specific

My understanding of the requirement is to look at customer specific requirements. The big three all have different requirements for their suppliers internal auditors. If customers do not designate any specific requirements, then it is up to the organization to determine who is qualified and how they are qualified.
 
Likes: db
#3
Mike Smith said:
My understanding of the requirement is to look at customer specific requirements. The big three all have different requirements for their suppliers internal auditors. If customers do not designate any specific requirements, then it is up to the organization to determine who is qualified and how they are qualified.
This is a VERY important note. Ford, in particular is very specific.
 
A

AllenLee

#4
Totally agree with Mike.

However, another question is the 2nd party auditor qualification. Per my understanding, if there is no customer specical requirements, the one who has internal auditor qualification can perform 2nd party audit activity. But, answers from some registrar is the 2nd party auditor shall be qualified by a very special course which is different from internal auditor one.

Is it true or not?
 

howste

Thaumaturge
Super Moderator
#5
AllenLee said:
Totally agree with Mike.

However, another question is the 2nd party auditor qualification. Per my understanding, if there is no customer specical requirements, the one who has internal auditor qualification can perform 2nd party audit activity. But, answers from some registrar is the 2nd party auditor shall be qualified by a very special course which is different from internal auditor one.

Is it true or not?
GM CSRs (customer specific requirements) don't say anything about it.

Ford CSRs say that 2nd party auditors must be approved by Ford STA (Supplier Technical Assistance).

Chryslers CSRs say:
The 2nd Party must utilize a qualified Lead Auditor, or qualified Internal Auditor with evidence of successful completion of training, such as AIAG "Internal Auditing for ISO/TS 16949:2002".
As far as internal auditors go, I agree with what db said. Ford has the most specific requirements, although they did relax the requirements a bit in the latest version of their CSRs that came out in July. Here's a link to the Big Three CSRs.
 

howste

Thaumaturge
Super Moderator
#7
Mike Smith said:
Just for my understanding, What are the roles of a second party auditor?
This falls under 7.4.1.2 Supplier Quality Management System Development. If you are using supplier audits (2nd party) instead of requiring ISO 9001 or TS 16949 certification, the auditors need to be qualified to do so.
 
S

SilverHawk

#8
Outsourced Internal Auditing

I am sure this must have been discussed some time ago but I dun where to look it up but 6.2.2(b) states to provide training or take other actions to satisfy these needs... Does it means that if we are not competent enough to conduct our internal audit for the first time using TS Turtle approach, can we engage an external expert to perform the internal audits?

Do we really have to conduct the internal audits ourselves? We may able to do it but not for the first time.... we need helps?

Can we outsource internal audits? Our local CB auditors point blank shot us down that we have to do it on our own and by our own self!!!
 
#9
SilverHawk said:
I am sure this must have been discussed some time ago but I dun where to look it up but 6.2.2(b) states to provide training or take other actions to satisfy these needs... Does it means that if we are not competent enough to conduct our internal audit for the first time using TS Turtle approach, can we engage an external expert to perform the internal audits?

Do we really have to conduct the internal audits ourselves? We may able to do it but not for the first time.... we need helps?

Can we outsource internal audits? Our local CB auditors point blank shot us down that we have to do it on our own and by our own self!!!
There is no requirement for using outsourced internal auditors. I perform internal audits for several companies (including TS), and have had no problems. There are some specific things in the Customer Specific Requirements that apply, so be careful. Visteon states that you have to have a Lead Auditor that completed Lead Auditor training, and if you don't have you must outsource your internal audits to someone that has the completed training (please read the actual CSR for precise wording).

As far your CB auditor, I would ask him/her to quote the shall that prohibits the use of outsourced internal auditors. I tell you it ain't in there.

Hope that helps.
 
S

SilverHawk

#10
"internal" internal auditors

Thanks, Dave. I knew that I cannot find the word, "shall" but the local CB TS2 auditor insisted that the word, "internal" means the resourcesful person MUST be an "internal".

We have asked the TS2 auditor during the document review and she has and I repeated again, point blank that she will not accept the outsourcing of internal auditing.

We have a situation - we have a sales office in Shanghai and the staff merely coordinate and process sales orders received from customers in the greater China. The auditor wanted us to conduct an internal audit and we suggested outsource internal audit so that we do not have to fly our guys over to distant place for just a half-day audit in lieu of time, money and everything.

What would be the best solution to "tell" the auditor nicely that we would like to outsource and without getting an NCR?
 
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