TS 16949 Lead Auditor Training Providers

[Casana]

TS 16949 Training

Hello all,

I have to get 'trained' on TS, and was thinking of taking a Lead Auditor course for it since I've never done one. We have the potential of doing biz with Ford so mgmt wants me to be ready just in case.

A colleague says that Plexus offers the only 'authorized' training for TS. I did notice on their website that their Lead Auditor class is combined with a 'Suplier Auditor Certification'. I suppose I could instead take the 3 day Supplier Auditor certification (without the Lead Auditor part).

Has anyone taken either class? There's plenty other course providers that are cheaper. And doing a quick search on this board I found mixed reviews on Plexus.

Thanks in advance for any comments!
-Ana

 

[Marc]

I really would like to hear feedback on this.

 

[Howard Atkins]

I took a Excel course as a lead auditor with special reference to 16949 which is recognised by RAB and IRCA.
This was in England but they have courses in the US. I was very satisfied by the course.

Not an advertisment but for information only https://www.xlp.com/

 

[howste]

The training for auditors who will be working for registrars can only be obtained through the AIAG. I guess that Plexus may be doing the training for them?

As far as other training, you don't have to go to any particular company to get it. Just make sure you meet any requirements identified in your customer specific requirements. Ford's are probably the toughest. Here's what Ford requires:

Internal auditors at the organization shall have either of the following qualifications:
4.39.1 Trained as an ISO/TS 16949:2002 internal auditor using an auditor training course which covers the following:
An initial assessment of the understanding and ability to utilize:
•The Technical Specification ISO/TS 16949:2002
•Related core tools
•Applicable customer-specific requirements, and
•The automotive process approach to auditing (COPs, Support and Management).
Then trains and tests to understand and apply:
•The Technical Specification ISO/TS 16949:2002
•Related core tools
•Applicable customer-specific requirements, and
•The automotive process approach to auditing (COPs, Support and Management).
Practice sessions equivalent to one audit day in:
•Case study audits, and/or
•Auditing role plays/simulations, and/or
•On-site audits.
Conducted by a trainer who meets the requirements for ISO/TS 16949:2002 CB/Registrar Auditor Certification and Upgrade Training.
4.39.2 Have conducted at least 5 internal ISO/TS 16949:2002 internal audits during a period of 24 months under the supervision of an auditor trained as specified in 4.39.1, covering all elements of the standard and all processes directly impacting Ford part quality at least once over the 5 or more audits.

I'm not going to evaluate the competence of Plexus because I'm biased - I conduct training for a competitor. What I teach is a class that's probably similar to what Howard took. It's an accredited lead auditor course covering the ISO/TS 16949 requirements and everything Ford requires above.

 

[Terri]

GO PLEXUS!!

Go with Plexus! I work for a company that is world-wide and for the 16949 training, our entire corporation is backing PLEXUS. I went with a cheaper company and boy-oh-boy did I ever pay for it. The instructor actually had arguments with us!! I have heard nothing but positive things about Plexus (have never been in one of the classes though). You may be paying for more in the begining, but they are known as the "Prefered trainer" of GM Ford and DaimlerChrysler. GOOD LUCK!!

 

[howste]

Hmmm, that reminds me of something...

"If you think it's expensive to hire a professional, try hiring an amateur first"
- Red Adair, legendary oil well fighter

 

[David Mullins]

My Australian Plexus experience is that they charge more because they charge more.

The same consultants (that can't make it any other way) train for several "BRAND" name organisations.

Terri's response smells decidely of a plexus powder. Horses for courses Terri. Generic brainwashing isn't worth squat against hands-on training in the actual systems of the company - the key point most quality training packages completely miss.

I'd suggest that most training providers have similar packages, and trainers, so get on the phone and check their references!

 

[Sam]

If you plan to take the Plexus course I suggest you take a TS2 implementation course first.
There is a 30 minute 25 question exam with approximately one question each from the APQP,MSA, PFMEA & PPAP. The balance are from the TS2. None of this material, relevant to the exam, is discussed in class.
IMO this course does not meet the training requirements as requested by Ford. The training portion of the class only pertains to the "Automotive" approach to process definition.

 

[Marc]

TS2 Implementation Course

What is TS2? From https://elsmar.com/elsmarqualityforum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=6335 I assume it to be TS 16949 latest version, right?

What's the bottom line? If you want to do TS audits for a registrar, Plexus has the only course which the RAB approves?

I'm in that position now. I have the time and money and I want to do a series of lead auditor courses including whatever is necessary for the RAB. I'm not sure how QS-9000 is addressed by the RAB.

I've just started investigating exactly what I need to do. Right now I'm IRCA for ISO 9000 but want to go ahead and pull in 14001, TS and possibly something else. I might do medical device just to do it.

I have to get moving on this whilst I have the time. I've been out of the TS loop for a while and have to jump back in.

 

[Sam]

What's the bottom line? If you want to do TS audits for a registrar, Plexus has the only course which the RAB approves?

That's what I have heard. And you have to be nominated by a CB prior to applying.