TS 16949 PPAP/ Layout Inspection Frequency Requirements

B

Brian R Burke

#1
Hi

Just joined, sorry if this has been covered before. My question centres around the fact that PPAP is only valid for 12 months and therefore can not be submitted to a customer after that point, also TS16949 has a requirement for layout inspection (8.4.2.1), I am pushing suppliers to resubmit PPAP based on layout inspection annually, but I can not see any where in the AIAG manual a time specification or in the TS spec

Any help gratefully received
 
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Jim Wynne

Staff member
Admin
#2
Re: PPAP/ Layout Inspection Frequency

Hi

Just joined, sorry if this has been covered before. My question centres around the fact that PPAP is only valid for 12 months and therefore can not be submitted to a customer after that point, also TS16949 has a requirement for layout inspection (8.4.2.1), I am pushing suppliers to resubmit PPAP based on layout inspection annually, but I can not see any where in the AIAG manual a time specification or in the TS spec

Any help gratefully received
Welcome to the Cove. :D

Exclusive of customer requirements to the contrary:
  • A PPAP submission is "valid" until superseded by another PPAP submission (as in the case of engineering changes, e.g.) or the part goes out of production (in which case the records must be maintained for an additional calendar year). The elements of a PPAP submission that are not affected by a change causing a subsequent submission are still "valid."
  • There is no requirement for annual PPAP or layout.
 

Stijloor

Staff member
Super Moderator
#3
Hi

Just joined, sorry if this has been covered before. My question centres around the fact that PPAP is only valid for 12 months and therefore can not be submitted to a customer after that point, also TS16949 has a requirement for layout inspection (8.4.2.1), I am pushing suppliers to resubmit PPAP based on layout inspection annually, but I can not see any where in the AIAG manual a time specification or in the TS spec

Any help gratefully received
PPAP content and submission requirements are determined by the customer.

Stijloor.
 

Jim Wynne

Staff member
Admin
#5
The only 12 month requirement I recall is if the part is "dead" for a year or more, then a new PPAP may be required.
Good point. On page 6 of the 4th Edition PPAP manual, notification (and PPAP unless otherwise specified by the customer) is required for "Product produced after the tooling has been inactive for volume production for 12 months or more."
 

qusys

Trusted Information Resource
#6
Good point. On page 6 of the 4th Edition PPAP manual, notification (and PPAP unless otherwise specified by the customer) is required for "Product produced after the tooling has been inactive for volume production for 12 months or more."
AIAG blue book indicates several causes to advice the customer with notification in case of changes.
For instance, modification of methods of test /control, modification of parameters in the same process ( for raw materials), change of suppliers of material that have impact on form, fit and function and product performance etc...
The supplier shall inform the customer responsible of the product approval about the modifications in the design and process.
Then , the customer can decide if to request or not the presentation of the documentation of a new PPAP approval.
Besides , there are some case where the supplier has the faculty of not informing the customer. However, it has the responsibility to mantain records of the changs and mantain uptated the documentation of PPAP.
For instance, one of these is the move of tool/equipment in the same manufacturing site with no change in the prodcution flow.
A criteria to inform or not the customer is that the motification to the customer is due each time from, fit, function and performance of the product are affected.
hope this helps:bigwave:
 
B

Brian R Burke

#7
Thanks for the prompt response Gents, think it was just customer requirements in the past and I assumed that it was linked to the layout requirements in TS

Thanks again

B
 
I

isotsadmin

#8
Hi Everyone,
I work for a semiconductor mfg company which is certified to ts and the reliability monitoring process calls for an annual plan for all parts from each product groupings aside from the package reliability. we dont have customer requirement specifying so and I believe we should only comply to the ts 8.2.4.1. it is ok to do it on a frequency that is defined by the organization thru a 2 year plan instead of annual?
 
S

Stepbosq

#9
answer a bit late, but I just found your post looking for the same topic. I recommend you to have a look a ths very similar discussion:
TS does not use the term "product requalification". What you are refrring to is possibly "Layout Inspection" specified under 8.2.4.1.

TS does not specify any set frequency for layout inspection. Check carefully what your CSRs say before imposing any set frequency on yourself.

Main purpose of undertaking layout inspection is to have a crosscheck on parameters that are "assumed" to be OK based on the tooling being OK (simplest example - corner radius). But the tooling, machines.. are subject to wear and tear. The parameters may deteriorate. Catch them before they go out of control. So, usage of the machine and toolings should normally decide your frequency unless it is imposed on you by a CSR. With 2500+ products, once a year will be too frequent for most produts.

When undertaking layout inspection, do it on a sample piece that has already been checked for the routine inspection and testing parameters. That reduces your workload to checking the parameters uncovered by your quality plan.

You may specify your frequency for layout inspection as "one piece from the first lot every calendar year". That enables you to reduce your inspection by picking an already inspected piece and by not bothering about something not produced during that year.

I would also advise you to write an NC for this purpose, commit CA starting today and start doing it. Forget a backdated exercise if you are thinking of one.
This might help you in your agumentation against your customers...:cfingers:
 
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