TS 16949 Registration - Is this an automotive mandate?

dbulak

Quite Involved in Discussions
#1
One of our customers just told us that in three years we will have to be TS certified or they will not buy from us. Is this an automotive mandate? Can someone please explain. Thanks in advance.
 
T

Teri - 2011

#2
Re: TS certification

One of our customers just told us that in three years we will have to be TS certified or they will not buy from us. Is this an automotive mandate? Can someone please explain. Thanks in advance.
Not an automotive mandate, but your customer is mandating it!

We have several customers that insist on the TS certification (and ISO 14000).
However, look on the bright side, 3 years is plenty of time to implement!:D
 

Russ

Quite Involved in Discussions
#3
Re: TS certification

For some automotive it is. We supply Allison Transmission and they have made the same mandate. Still not clear if this affects only new part#'s or anything we are currently producing.:notme:
 

AndyN

A problem shared...
Staff member
Super Moderator
#4
Re: TS certification

One of our customers just told us that in three years we will have to be TS certified or they will not buy from us. Is this an automotive mandate? Can someone please explain. Thanks in advance.
Dbulak:
What is it that you make? The rules on applying TS are more defined than for QS-9000. If you don't make a product for an automotive/truck/motorcyle customers' use, then you can't be TS certified. So, if you make parts for tractors etc (or other 'off road vehicles) then TS doesn't apply.

There's isn't one organization mandating TS for supplier, however as stated above, customers do/will require it and your business won't get far in the automotive industry without it.

Andy
 
#5
Be careful here. Not just everyone can require you to get TS16949 registration. Only someone who is a TS "subscriber" can make this stick. However, finding out who exactly is on this list is problematic (see thread). While I am registered to TS, I cannot require my suppliers to register because they will not be able to find a registrar that will accept them. The best I can demand is that they register to ISO9001 and comply to TS16949. Of course, I'm the one who would have to audit them for compliance.

I would strongly suggest that you contact your registrar, if you are already ISO9001 registered, and give them your customer name and ask them if they will register you to TS. If you don't have a registrar, I'm sure that you could PM Sidney Vianna and he can hook you up with a quote! If DNV refuses to quote you for TS registration, you have a sure bet that you cannot register.
 
T

Teri - 2011

#6
Be careful here. Not just everyone can require you to get TS16949 registration. Only someone who is a TS "subscriber" can make this stick. However, finding out who exactly is on this list is problematic (see thread). While I am registered to TS, I cannot require my suppliers to register because they will not be able to find a registrar that will accept them. The best I can demand is that they register to ISO9001 and comply to TS16949. Of course, I'm the one who would have to audit them for compliance.

I would strongly suggest that you contact your registrar, if you are already ISO9001 registered, and give them your customer name and ask them if they will register you to TS. If you don't have a registrar, I'm sure that you could PM Sidney Vianna and he can hook you up with a quote! If DNV refuses to quote you for TS registration, you have a sure bet that you cannot register.
Not sure I totally agree, we are a tier 2 automotive supplier, our customer requires us to be registered to TS16949:2002, I know for a fact they are not a "subscriber". If we do not maintain our registration status, we can not quote new business.
An example: Gm is a subscriber,(our end customer) they require their suppliers (our direct customer) to be registered, as a TS registered company, you are required to have (or get) your suppliers registered. Therefore the snowball started at the subscriber level and cascades down from there.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
#7
as a TS registered company, you are required to have (or get) your suppliers registered.
I'll take issue with this much of your post.
ISO/TS 16949:2002 Section 7.4.1.2 said:
The organization shall perform supplier quality management system development with the goal of supplier conformity (emphasis mine) with this Technical Specification. Conformity with ISO 9001:2000 is the first step in achieving this goal.
NOTE The prioritization of suppliers for development depends upon, for example the supplier's quality performance and the importance of the product supplied.
Unless otherwise specified by the customer, suppliers to the organization shall be third party registered to ISO 9001:2000 by an accredited third-party certification body.
There is no shall associated with TS registration in either the standard or the IATF guidance. That said, I am aware by grapevine that there are Tier I suppliers to the Big Three that registrars will accept as requiring TS16949 registration as a Customer Specific Requirement.
 
S

selsensoy

#8
It's a fact that automotive industry requires TS 16949 registration if you want to be a supplier of that industry.

TS 16949 is a first step of rules for coming in automotive world,but there is something else to be underlined that is which tier you are. If you are Tier #1 then you should be certified to TS 16949, if you are Tier #2 then you should be certified to 9001:2000. If you are Tier #3 or more there is no statement in TS 16949.
:cool:
 
C

chaosweary

#9
If your customer demands it and will withhold business from you, then you pretty much have to do it unless you cannot find a registrar or are a distributor, of course another option is not doing business with them. We are tier two, we have large customers that demanded we have TS16949. It will take up more of peoples time to do this and keep it up. Surveillance audits are more frequent and more costly (at least by our registrar) than the 9000 audits. Luckily we will never have a problem passing them as long as the money is passed. :notme:
 
#10
Ohhh the confusion.

As far as I know, a "subscriber" is any organziation at any level that is certified to TS 16949. At any tier or level!!

So if an organziation is Tier 3 to a Tier 2 TS 16949 certified organization, then the Tier 2 organziation is the "subscriber." If the Tier 3 organiztion become TS certified, then they are now a "subscribing" organization.

Also, the following statements are FALSE, "It's a fact that automotive industry requires TS 16949 registration if you want to be a supplier of that industry. TS 16949 is a first step of rules for coming in automotive world,but there is something else to be underlined that is which tier you are. If you are Tier #1 then you should be certified to TS 16949, if you are Tier #2 then you should be certified to 9001:2000. If you are Tier #3 or more there is no statement in TS 16949."

If one reads 7.4.1.2, the requirement for suppliers is ISO 9001 certification and conformity to TS 16949. There are many, many suppliers in the auto industry that are NOT TS 16949 certified.

Any organization can try to require TS 16949 certification. But for the supplying organization to acutally attain certification, they must supply to a subscribing organzition (an organization with a TS certificate), the customer must requier TS certification, and the supplier must also meet the applicaibility/scope requirements as listed in the TS FAQ's which can be found on the IAOB / IATF websites.

Why is the following true? "While I am registered to TS, I cannot require my suppliers to register because they will not be able to find a registrar that will accept them." The only way I can see this to be true, is that if my understanding of a "subscribing organzition" is incorrect.

My organization is Tier 2 and 3 and we are TS certified.

Regards,

Dirk
 

Top Bottom