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TS 16949 Tier 2 Customer Specific Requirements?

kalehner

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#1
What's the responsibility of a Tier 2 supplier in regards to auditing customer specific requirements?

We make parts that we supply to Tier 1 suppliers who make additional changes and then send to OEM for installation in vehicles.

Do we need to be confirm our conformance to our customers specific requirements or to the OEM's specific requirements?

We're trying to answer the question, as it may arise during a TS 16949 recertification audit: How do we know we're compliant to our customer's specific requirements?

Do we need to do something to make sure our customer has identified the OEM’s customer specific requirements and included those in their requirements to us?
 
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#2
Re: TS 16949 customer specific requirements?

What's the responsibility of a Tier 2 supplier in regards to auditing customer specific requirements?

We make parts that we supply to Tier 1 suppliers who make additional changes and then send to OEM for installation in vehicles.

Do we need to be confirm our conformance to our customers specific requirements or to the OEM's specific requirements?

We're trying to answer the question, as it may arise during a TS 16949 recertification audit: How do we know we're compliant to our customer's specific requirements?

Do we need to do something to make sure our customer has identified the OEM’s customer specific requirements and included those in their requirements to us?
One of the principle reasons for doing an audit is to confirm "planned arrangements" are being met. Since you planned to meet the customers' requirements, yes, you should be auditing them in your internal audit program - regardless of being in the automotive industry or what TS specifically says!

Now, as far as your customer goes, you cannot be held accountable or ensure that they have determined their customers' requirements - it's out of your control.
 

qusys

Trusted Information Resource
#3
Re: TS 16949 customer specific requirements?

Your are responsible to meet the requirement of your direct Customers, that shall also give you the requirements to meet the needs of the final Customer.
From your post, I understand that your direct customer makes some changes to your product ( that could be considered semi finished goods), but you are not responsible of those modifications. Correct me if I was wrong.
If you demonstrated that the your customer satisfaction is ok, meeting its requirements to you according to the contract , including APQP and PPAP , you are compliant.
hope this helps.
 
J

J PARTHASARATHY

#4
For tier 2, the customer is tier 1 and it meets the requirement if you satisfy their 'csr'. It is the responsibility of tier 1 supplier to incorporate the oem's need if anything relevant to tier 2 supplier and built in their csr. Hope this may help. Thanks.
 
K

Karen R

#5
As a Tier 1, I could use some advice on just what OEM requirements other pass down to their suppliers. We're a steel processor, sometimes supplying direct to OEMs, usually to stampers. Sometimes we use outside processors at the direction of our OEM customers. Othertimes we do so to increase our capacity. In these cases, it is not in our commercial interests to divulge our end customers.

So - what specific customer specific requirements am I obligated to pass down the supply chain? How do I do so when I wish to maintain confidentiality of my end customers? I understand PPAP requirements, I'm speaking specifically of the various customer specific supplements to TS / supplier quality manuals.

Any advice so we can keep it simple and value added would be much appreciated!
 

try2makeit

Quite Involved in Discussions
#6
As a Tier 1, I could use some advice on just what OEM requirements other pass down to their suppliers. We're a steel processor, sometimes supplying direct to OEMs, usually to stampers. Sometimes we use outside processors at the direction of our OEM customers. Othertimes we do so to increase our capacity. In these cases, it is not in our commercial interests to divulge our end customers.

So - what specific customer specific requirements am I obligated to pass down the supply chain? How do I do so when I wish to maintain confidentiality of my end customers? I understand PPAP requirements, I'm speaking specifically of the various customer specific supplements to TS / supplier quality manuals.

Any advice so we can keep it simple and value added would be much appreciated!
I guess I would say your PO you are issuing to the outside processor. Many of our customers use their PO's to add additional requirements or information, that then gets entered by Customer Order Entry.
 
R

ralphsulser

#7
If they are have a current ISO9001/TS16949 system certification, then that should cover most anything you need.
 

howste

Thaumaturge
Super Moderator
#8
...In these cases, it is not in our commercial interests to divulge our end customers.

So - what specific customer specific requirements am I obligated to pass down the supply chain? How do I do so when I wish to maintain confidentiality of my end customers? I understand PPAP requirements, I'm speaking specifically of the various customer specific supplements to TS / supplier quality manuals.
If your customer requires you to flow down their CSRs, then you must. If not, you don't have to.

For example, the Visteon customer specific requirements state "The organization shall cascade the intent of these customer specific requirements to their suppliers where applicable." In this case you don't need to specify to your suppliers the Visteon CSR (thereby letting them know who your customer is). But you do need to flow down the relevant requirements in them.

As you stated, any CSR requirements relative to PPAPs would always need to be flowed down to suppliers. TS 16949 states, "The organization shall conform to a product and manufacturing process approval procedure recognized by the customer. This product and manufacturing process approval procedure shall also be applied to suppliers." In fact, the GM CSRs state in the PPAP section, "These requirements also apply to all commodities supplied by external independent organizations, GM Allied and Affiliated supply organizations, plus all commodities supplied to these organizations (e.g. subcontractors and tier suppliers)."

I hope this helps.
 
K

Karen R

#9
Thanks, thus begins the hunt to review and compile just what all those relevant requirements are!
 
C

Citizen Kane

#10
Hi !

Well, if you meet the agreements you've made with your customer in the signed contract - at the specific quality, quantity and other specifications - then you are compliant. For this question, this is what we presented in our relationship with our customer regarding the specific requirements.
 
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